Author Topic: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation  (Read 3395 times)

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Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #45 on: »
So where's the traffic order, are you saying it hasn't been provided?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #46 on: »
So where's the traffic order, are you saying it hasn't been provided?

You mean the court order to cancel the earlier PCN? I have attached that. There is no other traffic order in the case bundle.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2025, 02:42:14 am by mosana »

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #47 on: »
To clarify:
In this link,

there is one doc that says: Case summary and traffic management order, but it does not have a traffic management order.

and in another, it says the penalty is £130, when it is supposed to be £80.


Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #48 on: »
A bit of a ramble I know ..........

The case summary is 3 pages (sides) long.

The evidence list says "B. Case Summary & Traffic Management Order" and "Total no. of sides = 3". That suggests to me that the TMO has not been included. If it had been included then the number of sides would be larger.

The problem thus far has been that all you have is strong mitigation. Neither the Council or the Police instructed you to park in the pay & display bay, albeit temporarily, whilst you went to find somebody to provide guidance. So at first sight the PCN was lawful and correctly issued and the Council is entitled to pursue it.

However the Adjudicator cannot rule on mitigation, only the facts, the balance of probability and whether or not correct procedure has been followed.

The Adjudicator can (rarely done) ask the Council to reconsider and cancel which is probably what you were aiming at.

In your case the Notice of Rejection seems to be your only avenue of procedural defect. The Council are obliged to consider your formal representations against the Notice to Owner. Your reps were clear and comprehensive however the NoR is very sparse with minimal detail suggesting a boilerplate rejection with little or no actual consideration. Conversely the subsequent case summary is much more comprehensive. Seems they only really considered your representations when you submitted an appeal to the Adjudicator.

However the Council is also obliged to submit evidence to the Tribunal as to the contravention and why they believe it occurred. The Traffic Order creates the alleged contravention and should be presented in evidence. If the Traffic Order is really not there then you can also argue that there is no evidence to lawfully establish the alleged contravention.

Also Section C says the penalty outstanding is £130.  I would point it out to the Adjudicator as an unlawful demand for money. The figure should be £80. The Adjudicator might well dismiss that as just a typo and not relevant.

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #49 on: »
@mosana to create a restriction the council can't just put some paint on the road and wack up some signs, there needs to be a local bylaw called a Traffic Management Order, I happen to know that in Croydon that would be The Croydon (On-Street Charged-For Parking Places) (Consolidation) Order 2019, that is a map based order so there would also need to be the map tiles for the order.

If there's no order in evidence this is how I would play things out: at the start of the hearing give the whole story of everything that happened (in summary form, you only have a few minutes and you don't want to run out of time), that is just mitigation but should earn you some sympathy.

Then point out that there is no traffic management order in the council's evidence pack, so there is no evidence of any contravention. Once you point that out, in 99% of cases the adjudicator will not grant an adjournment to the authority and will simply allow the appeal.

You can cite these cases to the adjudicator:

Mohammed Sharif v London Borough of Waltham Forest (2210634991, 16 December 2021)
Adedoyin Amoye v London Borough of Southwark (2240033265, 16 March 2024)
Commercial Plant Services Ltd v City of Westminster (2240059939, 20 April 2024)
Fawaz Mohamed v City of Westminster (2240162188, 8 July 2024)
Mohamed Rohan Malik v London Borough of Harrow (2240483647, 9 December 2024)

Do not submit anything before the hearing, the last thing you want to do is forewarn the council and give them an opportunity to rectify their mistake.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #50 on: »
Thanks so much @cp8759 and @Enceladus - will share the outcome tomorrow on Feb 19th - as the hearing has been postponed for lack of adjudicators (earliest available date it seems)!
« Last Edit: January 06, 2025, 04:03:05 pm by mosana »

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #51 on: »
Hi all,

The case is coming up on Wednesday, and I want to check on one more thing. I moved houses in May and promptly changed V5c too. However the Nto was issued in July to my new address. Is this a contravention by the council as the Nto should have been addressed to the old address as it is the address at the material time as the contravention occurred in March?

Can this be a deal-breaker? Can I have the V5c submitted as evidence or is anything else required?

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #52 on: »
Hi all,

The case is coming up on Wednesday, and I want to check on one more thing. I moved houses in May and promptly changed V5c too. However the Nto was issued in July to my new address. Is this a contravention by the council as the Nto should have been addressed to the old address as it is the address at the material time as the contravention occurred in March?

Can this be a deal-breaker? Can I have the V5c submitted as evidence or is anything else required?
I don't think so, because you may have told them your address when submitting representations.

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #53 on: »
You would also look a bit silly, complaing that a document helpfully sent to the correct address was not sent to an address you have vacated.
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #54 on: »
I did not, they have submitted an evidence showing how they got my address from the DVLA system on July 2nd.

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #55 on: »
You would also look a bit silly, complaing that a document helpfully sent to the correct address was not sent to an address you have vacated.

Not quite - the council messed up the sending part anyway, and I had to file a TE9 saying I did not receive the NTo that they claim they sent. After another 2 months, I received the NTO in September.

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #56 on: »
You have a complete knock-out winning ground with the missing TMO, I would not distract the adjudicator with inconsequential matters.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #57 on: »
The appeal has been allowed and the ticket is cancelled, for lack of TMO.

Thanks so much community - <3  for all your advice!
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Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #58 on: »
Well done for sticking with it. And thank you for reporting back the outcome, all to often we don't get to know what happened.

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #59 on: »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order