Author Topic: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation  (Read 3409 times)

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Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #30 on: »
@Enceladus: It is dated Sep 2nd, so some time left. I plan to check again over the next week, else will be posting them instead of emailing. Will also try calling on Monday but not much hope on that front.

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #31 on: »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #32 on: »
CR46209082 has been won above, thanks to cp and Croydon council not submitting its evidence. PCN CR46274186 is coming up on Jan 7, unfortunately Croydon have submitted evidence this time. What are the main arguments I can put forth to win this?

My thoughts:

1. The notice of rejection is generic - it does not address the "Emergency evacuation" sign, or the blocked roads.

2. The observation period is 11:40 to 11:40 - it is too short for the officer to have understood the circumstances.

Is there anything else I can state to strengthen my chances of winning?

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #33 on: »
Did you not ask the Tribunal to combine the cases?

Anyway do you have the Notice of Rejection for the Jan 7th case? Or is the case a result of referral to the Adjudicator as a result of an order from the Traffic Enforcement Centre? If you have the NoR please post it up. Redact your name and address.

You should have the evidence pack, it may be online on the Tribunal appeal portal? Please post up the Council's case summary document. And the NoR should also be in the Council pack.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2024, 07:43:52 pm by Enceladus »

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #34 on: »
@Enceladus
Attaching the NoR and case summary:

Link to nor and case summary

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #35 on: »
Is the below the text of you formal representation against the re-issued NTO? If not please post up exactly what you did submit to the Council.

And did you ask the Tribunal to consider both cases together? I guess not?

And since the NTO was re-issued we should at least have a look at page 1. Please post that up, redact your name and address.

And please post up the court order issued by the TEC. Just redact your name and address.

Also please post up a draft of your skeleton on here for scrutiny and crediblilty check.

Here goes the draft...

I would like to appeal the PCN CR46209082 through the arguments in my formal representation. I would like to combine the appeal with the appeal against PCN CR46274186 and also would like to request a personal hearing. Both PCN's were levied after I was evacuated from my house by the council on Mar 22, 2024 and not allowed back till the afternoon of March 23, 2024.

Details: 
On March 22, 2024, we were asked to evacuate our house at short notice because of a gas leak in the area. Being an emergency, we were not given details about the duration of the evacuation.

After a few hours, we were told by a Met Police staff that we will be unable to spend the night at our home. We were given the address of a church to stay overnight. The police were not able to give advice on where to park our cars. We have 2 kids of 4 and 1 year old at home, so we had to use our car to transport the family, after taking basic food and milk supplies for the kid and the baby.

The car park at the church was occupied, and so I had parked the car overnight on Altyre road, and had planned to move it during the morning upon further instructions from the council and the gas agency. I kept calling the council through the morning about the next course of action for the residents, but they were not able to provide me with any updates. I had also been ticketed during this time. PCN CR46209082 was issued in the morning (08:34) while I was still awaiting instructions from the council to no avail.

As per the Civil Contingencies Act 2004, in the event of an emergency, it is imperative for the local council to:

Put in place arrangements to make information available to the public about civil
protection matters and maintain arrangements to warn, inform and advise the public
in the event of an emergency;

Food provisioning was not taken care of by the council. The council also failed to provide information about the expected timelines and make contingency arrangements (including food provisions) for families with kids. Had there been clear instructions on parking arrangements after the evacuation, we would have followed those instructions.

We made many calls to the council for updates, but they did not have much information about the status on the ground. They redirected us to the gas agency, SGN.

While the gas agency messaged us on Saturday at 10:56 AM, that we were allowed back into our homes, it did not tell us that the road access to our home was blocked and our car won’t be able to come in. We arrived on Lansdowne Road (which is one-way) but found the access to our home was blocked. There were no diversion signs, or information about where residents of Emerald House have to go.

I parked the car safely at the nearby Walpole Road, and went to inquire the staff and the police in the area about the diversion and instructions for residents of Emerald House. It was during this time that my car had been ticketed.

Had there been clear instructions on the diversion, or had we been told about the blockade in advance, we would have acted accordingly. I also had placed a clearly signposted message on the car, saying that there has been an emergency evacuation at our house. Besides, the ticketing officer has indicated an observation time from 11:30 to 11:30. I did not receive sufficient time for getting the information about the road block, or spotting the officer and explaining the situation to them.

We kindly request the adjudicator to cancel our PCN considering the council has not given us any directions during the evacuation on parking and blocked the way to our home without any information on return.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2024, 08:01:06 pm by Enceladus »

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #36 on: »
@Enceladus
I have attached the details here.

I could not ask both to be considered together as the first one came up for hearing three months back.

@cp8759 - will be happy if you can pitch your advise too :)

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #37 on: »
This is the draft copy of the formal rep I sent to the council.

Quote
We are residing in .... and we have been residents for three years in Croydon. On March 22, 2024, we were asked to evacuate our house at short notice because of a gas leak in the area. Being an emergency, we were not given details about the duration of the evacuation.

After a few hours, we were told by a Met Police staff that we will be unable to spend the night at our home. We were given the address of a church to stay overnight (attached pic). We were not permitted to return to our homes till the noon of Saturday. We made many calls to the council for updates, but they did not have much information about the status on the ground. They redirected us to the gas agency, SGN.

While the gas agency messaged us on Saturday at 10:56 AM, that we were allowed back into our homes, it did not tell us that the road access to our home was blocked and our car won’t be able to come in. We arrived on Lansdowne Road (which is one-way) but found the access to our home was blocked. There were no diversion signs, or information about where residents of Emerald House have to go.

I parked the car safely at the nearby Walpole Road, and went to inquire the staff and the police in the area about the diversion and instructions for residents of Emerald House. I wanted to understand the situation before deciding the length of the time for which I had to buy parking, because it was not my original intention to park in that bay.

It was during this time that my car had been ticketed. The observation period in the ticket was under a minute.

Had there been clear instructions on the diversion, or had we been told about the blockade in advance, we would have acted accordingly. I also had placed a clearly signposted message on the car, saying that there has been an emergency evacuation at our house. Besides, the ticketing officer has indicated an observation time from 11:30 to 11:30. I did not receive sufficient time for getting the information about the road block, or spotting the officer and explaining the situation to them.

In their notice to rejection and informal rejection, the council makes no allusion to our situation and has provided only a generic rejection letter. The super-short observation period of under a minute has also not been addressed.

We appeal  to cancel the PCN on account of the above procedural impropriety by the council.

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #38 on: »
@cp8759 - will be happy if you can pitch your advise too :)
@mosana would you like me to represent you for CR46274186 as well?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #39 on: »
@cp8759 - would you mind giving some free advice this time around?  ;)

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #40 on: »
The Croydon Insider blog might like the story or steve.bird@telegraph.co.uk
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #41 on: »
..on which topic..

OP, is this the event...

Residents at the scene were told by the police “there was an incident involving a car at the BP garage which resulted in a major gas leak”. A safety cordon with a 200-metre radius from the crash was put in place, with all residents in homes within that area forced to evacuate.

By mid-afternoon today, though, some residents still did not know when they would get to return to their homes, if at all, or where they might be spending the night.


(Ref: https://insidecroydon.com/2024/09/29/gas-leak-evacuation-sees-residents-furious-at-croydon-council/)

If so, then does '..we were asked to evacuate our house at short notice..' really convey the reality.

'Please would you like to leave/awfully grateful if you would' rather like Sgt. Wilson in Dad's Army, or 'raus, raus, aussteigen!' as in The Great Escape?

In any event, if you want to beef up the preliminary events you might find the newspaper's account a useful aide-memoire.
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Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #42 on: »
Thanks @H C Andersen, but this is a more recent episode (September), while my story took place in March 2024!

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #43 on: »
@cp8759 - would you mind giving some free advice this time around?  ;)
You'll need to share the whole evidence pack, otherwise there's nothing to give advice on.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: 6 - parking offence when returning after evacuation
« Reply #44 on: »
« Last Edit: January 04, 2025, 07:26:13 pm by mosana »