3. 53J PCN - Barnet Council - Bethune Avenue South of The Ridgeway N11
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53J PCN - Barnet Council - Bethune Avenue South of The Ridgeway N11
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Hi

I have received PCN stating contravention of 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering the pedestrian zone (camera enforcement)

Vehicle was seen in Bethune Avenue South of the Ridgeway N11 on 10/06/2024, date of the notice was 17/06/2024

I am based in east London and this was my first time driving through this area in N11 where my navigation system has guided me to.
I checked google maps and the signs do not appear on street view.

google street view

I have drafted a challenge and would like to ask for you opinion to move forward with it.

"I would like to challenge as there was no prior warning that could have allowed me to comply with the restriction. I am based in east London and not familiar with the area to where my navigation system has guided me. The signage does not appear on google street view and Waze, suggesting that it is either a new addition not yet documented or is placed in a manner that makes it not visible to drivers turning right from the road (The Ridgeway) until it is too late to avoid entering the restricted area. As you can see the sign is only visible driving straight on Bethune Avenue, however it is not angled clear and visibly turning from the side road (The Ridgeway)"
« Last Edit: June 22, 2024, 12:48:25 pm by anthomy93 »
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Re: 53J PCN - Barnet Council
« Reply #1 on: »
VRM:KY68NKR
PCN Number: AG45877229

Folder is full so I`m unable to upload screenshot of the PCN
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Re: 53J PCN - Barnet Council - Bethune Avenue South of The Ridgeway N11
« Reply #2 on: »
Quote
Folder is full so I`m unable to upload screenshot of the PCN
Please to have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and post here all sides of the PCN, redactng only name & address. Leave everything else in.
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Re: 53J PCN - Barnet Council - Bethune Avenue South of The Ridgeway N11
« Reply #3 on: »
« Last Edit: June 22, 2024, 02:25:24 pm by anthomy93 »
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Re: 53J PCN - Barnet Council - Bethune Avenue South of The Ridgeway N11
« Reply #4 on: »
Here are the Images (using the BBcodes). Now complete









« Last Edit: June 22, 2024, 03:14:30 pm by John U.K. »
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Re: 53J PCN - Barnet Council - Bethune Avenue South of The Ridgeway N11
« Reply #5 on: »
Apologies. Missing pages are below

Page 3

Page 5
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Re: 53J PCN - Barnet Council - Bethune Avenue South of The Ridgeway N11
« Reply #6 on: »
Do you think I’d have a legitimate ground to appeal this PCN?
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Re: 53J PCN - Barnet Council - Bethune Avenue South of The Ridgeway N11
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: anthomy93 on June 22, 2024, 08:09:18 pm
Do you think I’d have a legitimate ground to appeal this PCN?
Well, you might have, but as GSV is too out-of-date to show the signs it is not possible to say whether you have a strong case or not. 

I note that threads from satnav users driving in big cities are getting rather too common on this forum. Satnavs are NEVER up-to-date. But you might say, "I updated it last night and paid £100 to do so". But if the geographical information the satnav relies on doesn't have all the traffic restrictions, it may well send you down a road you should not go down. All this modern whizzo stuff we all rely on nowadays is not totally perfect, I'm afraid.

So, what we need is sight of the signs at that location. After that, final advice can be given.
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Re: 53J PCN - Barnet Council - Bethune Avenue South of The Ridgeway N11
« Reply #8 on: »
I understand when it comes to satnav. Thank you for the input!
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Re: 53J PCN - Barnet Council - Bethune Avenue South of The Ridgeway N11
« Reply #9 on: »
@anthomy93 well you turned right into the road:



We have won in such circumstances before where there was an absence of advance warning signs on the road a driver was turning out of, but as GSV is out of date we don't know what the signage situation is.

You should therefore make a representation simply denying the contravention before midnight on Tuesday in order to buy us some time and preserve the discount, this will give us several weeks to get the information back.

In the meantime I'll get hold of photos of the signage and the traffic management order.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: 53J PCN - Barnet Council - Bethune Avenue South of The Ridgeway N11
« Reply #10 on: »
@anthomy93 well you never responded but here is The Barnet (Prescribed Route) (No.2) (Experimental) Traffic Order 2024

Signage photos:

Camera & Zone signs HEMINGTON AVE JW FRIERN BARNET LANE:


Camera & Zone signs on BETHUNE AVE JW RIDGEWAY:


Camera & Zone signs on Crescent Rd JW The Crescent:


Pre warning sign BETHUNE AVE on LC6:


Pre warning sign FRIERN BARNET LANE on LC9:


Pre warning sign on FRIERN BARNET LANE on LC16:


Pre warning sign outside 79 GLENTHORNE Rd:


Pre warning sign RIDGEWAY on LC11:
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: 53J PCN - Barnet Council - Bethune Avenue South of The Ridgeway N11
« Reply #11 on: »
Hi, I have just received the same PCN at the same spot. Does anyone know whether this was successfully challenged? Thanks in advance
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Re: 53J PCN - Barnet Council - Bethune Avenue South of The Ridgeway N11
« Reply #12 on: »
As there were other signs on that road, I ended up paying the fine…
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Re: 53J PCN - Barnet Council - Bethune Avenue South of The Ridgeway N11
« Reply #13 on: »
Sometimes we never hear back from the OP. Best if you start your own thread, but looking at the photos posted by cp8759, any arguments based on inadequate signage look to be a non-runner.

You could also search the London Tribunals statutory register. Type in the location and a start date to see what comes up.
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  3. 53J PCN - Barnet Council - Bethune Avenue South of The Ridgeway N11