3. 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)
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Re: 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)
« Reply #15 on: »
I absolutely hope it does help you and feel free to use it in all any appeals!
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Re: 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)
« Reply #16 on: »
Out of interest, the advance sign is improper as regards its legality. The sign is prescribed under the regs and conveys:

No left turn for vehicular traffic.

I'll bet a £ to a pinch of RHS that turning left from the main road is not prohibited.

What you cannot do is to drive past the zone signs. I agree that by signing that turning left is prohibited would have the same practical effect - although it's possible to turn into the head of the junction without fully passing the signs - but that sign does not convey a prohibition supported by an order.

A moot point or one which could perhaps be deployed if necessary, who knows?   

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Re: 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)
« Reply #17 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on July 28, 2025, 01:50:11 pm
Out of interest, the advance sign is improper as regards its legality. The sign is prescribed under the regs and conveys:

No left turn for vehicular traffic.

I'll bet a £ to a pinch of RHS that turning left from the main road is not prohibited.

What you cannot do is to drive past the zone signs. I agree that by signing that turning left is prohibited would have the same practical effect - although it's possible to turn into the head of the junction without fully passing the signs - but that sign does not convey a prohibition supported by an order.

A moot point or one which could perhaps be deployed if necessary, who knows?



Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally appeal the Penalty Charge Notice issued under contravention code 53J. I respectfully request its cancellation on the following grounds:

Unclear or Obstructed Signage: The signage orientation is set in a way that is practically invisible until you have already turned onto the street. This is inadequate especically when you consider the speed and througput of the Greenford road. Drivers simply are overwhelmed by other signs and stimuli to be able to safely react to that signage.

Lack of Advance Warning for Certain Directions: When I drive into Greenford Road from Costons Lane on the opposite side of Greenford Road, there is no visible advance signage alerting drivers to the restriction ahead. This makes it especially difficult for drivers unfamiliar with the area to respond appropriately.
The advanced warning sign is also positioned near to a bus stop which means any bus or van can easily obscure the sign from view.

Advanced Warning Sign is legally incorrect:
the advance sign is improper as regards its legality. The sign is prescribed under the regs and conveys:
"No left turn for vehicular traffic"
But turning left from the main road is not legally prohibited.



Recent Signage Installation: This restriction appears to be a new addition to the area. As a regular road user, I had not previously encountered this sign or restriction and had no reason to expect it.

First-Time Offence: If an offence did occur, I kindly request leniency on the grounds that this is my first such incident and was unintentional, caused by unclear visibility and unfamiliar signage.

I hope you will consider these points and exercise discretion in this case. I would appreciate the cancellation of this PCN.


How does this look HCAnderson?
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Re: 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)
« Reply #18 on: »
Just to set your expectations, Ealing will not accept your inital appeal. I appealed a PCN parked outside my house as I don't have a permit because I'm usually at work when the restrictions are in place. I took my girlfriend to A&E because she has a migraine for a week. I spent the night there, came home exhaused after calling in sick to work and went to bed. Woke up to a parking ticket. Told them all this and they still refused my appeal. They will refuse to use their discretion like the money grabbers they are.

Anyway, I'm up that neck of the woods today. I'll see if I can get some footage coming from costons ln, onto greenford rd and back into the School Street.
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Re: 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)
« Reply #19 on: »
IMO the PCN is non-compliant as it does not contain mandatory information.

I make this collateral challenge against the validity of the PCN as it does not state mandatory information provided at 4(8 )(v) of

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted

which in turn refers to 4(8 )(iii). Therefore, the PCN is not valid as it is missing mandatory information.  And so it follows that the statement beginning with "If you fail................." is not only conflated but also does not even mention the said information thus exacerbating the lack of clarity of this PCN. Whether the "or" is interpreted as conjunctional or disjunctional, is somewhat further complicated  by the missing information.  The High Court has ruled that there must be such.

I must start a thread on this in the Flame Pit.

I am sorry that this is complicated; but, there it is.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2025, 10:03:01 pm by Hippocrates »
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)
« Reply #20 on: »
Sorry: conjunctive and disjunctive may be best English.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)
« Reply #21 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on July 30, 2025, 01:55:49 pm
Sorry: conjunctive and disjunctive may be best English.

I dont really understand but I'll add it to my reps and see how i go
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Re: 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)
« Reply #22 on: »
Quote from: C_H_R_I_S on August 01, 2025, 12:21:49 pm
Quote from: Hippocrates on July 30, 2025, 01:55:49 pm
Sorry: conjunctive and disjunctive may be best English.

I dont really understand but I'll add it to my reps and see how i go
Here you are : -
https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/28805/conjunctive-and-disjunctive-assertions

I also learnt something today !
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  3. 53J Costons Lane Greenford (UNCLEAR SIGNAGE)