3. TFL, code 31- entering and stopping in a box junction, Homerton High Street,
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TFL, code 31- entering and stopping in a box junction, Homerton High Street,
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Hi folks,

My wife recieved  a ticket for the above. There was a lot of traffic at the time and she  was behind a bus obscuring  her view. By the time she relaised she was in a yellow box it was too late.

No excuse, but  ive had pcns cancelled based on invalidity  of pcns as advised by members from pepipoo  forum.

I have posted the orginal pcn in google drive link below. Any help would be much appreciated.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FN9WZmTBI7SkkveJJV1v91mt07RferNG


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Re: TFL, code 31- entering and stopping in a box junction, Homerton High Street,
« Reply #1 on: »
Call TFL on 0343 222 3333 and ask for the video, they will send you a DVD in the post and put the penalty on hold while you wait. In a box junction case, it is of critical importance that we see the video before giving any advice.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: TFL, code 31- entering and stopping in a box junction, Homerton High Street,
« Reply #2 on: »
Thanks cp8759. I have uploaded the video footgae to my google drive. Our car is visible from 2.20 onwards.
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Re: TFL, code 31- entering and stopping in a box junction, Homerton High Street,
« Reply #3 on: »
Hm, I have to say it looks like the contravention is made out, sorry to have to say it. You followed the bus closely into the box with no hesitation at all, and with a bus in front of you this was rather misguided because your view of traffic in front of it is thus blocked off.  THe bus driver stops to let a bus out of a side road, but then stops for quite some time when he could move forward.
I think you're bang-to-rights, but see what the others say; there may be errors in the PCN but I'm not up-to-speed on this aspect.
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Re: TFL, code 31- entering and stopping in a box junction, Homerton High Street,
« Reply #4 on: »
Do you have any mitigation available, and do you have any mitigating evidence? If so there is a strategy of last resort described here.

The other thing with TFL PCNs is that if you make a representation within the discount period, they mess up the response as the letter won't specify whether they're reoffered the discount for 14 days from the date of the rejection, or the date of service of the rejection, so you can appeal on that as well.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: TFL, code 31- entering and stopping in a box junction, Homerton High Street,
« Reply #5 on: »
No mitigation really .Just genuine  mistake so not sure what i can even put down as grounds for appeal? Also if i appeal and it gets rejected  will i still have opportunity  to pay at discounted rate. I called tfl on 1.12.23 to request dvd on 21.12.23.
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Re: TFL, code 31- entering and stopping in a box junction, Homerton High Street,
« Reply #6 on: »
An "appeal" is what you present at London Tribunals. What you present to TfL are "representations" (against the PCN). if you submit representations to TfL within the discount period, and they refuse, then as far as I know, they re-offer the discount. On the other hand, all appeals at London Tribunals, and, indeed, at all the other UK adjudicators are with the full PCN penalty in play, with no discount option.
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Re: TFL, code 31- entering and stopping in a box junction, Homerton High Street,
« Reply #7 on: »
Yes you're right. I have submitted a representation. Lets  see what they say.
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Re: TFL, code 31- entering and stopping in a box junction, Homerton High Street,
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on December 13, 2023, 11:16:53 pm
Do you have any mitigation available, and do you have any mitigating evidence? If so there is a strategy of last resort described here.

The other thing with TFL PCNs is that if you make a representation within the discount period, they mess up the response as the letter won't specify whether they're reoffered the discount for 14 days from the date of the rejection, or the date of service of the rejection, so you can appeal on that as well.


 They have  sent a notice of rejection ( see google drive link in 1st post)They dont specify where the 14 day period starts  from in page 2 paragraph  5. Im not sure if this is what you were referring to cp8759?
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Re: TFL, code 31- entering and stopping in a box junction, Homerton High Street,
« Reply #9 on: »
Yes the rejection is ambiguous, so you have to decide if you want to appeal based on that. It's worth waiting till Monday evening to see if it goes up before midnight, if it does then your case is quite strong (but not certain).

There's been a couple of decisions on this before, see Nayeem Haque v Transport for London (2220767288, 15 November 2022) and Mike Welch v Transport for London (2230428700, 18 November 2023).

If on Tuesday the penalty is still £80 you could appeal anyway but it would be more of a gamble.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: TFL, code 31- entering and stopping in a box junction, Homerton High Street,
« Reply #10 on: »
Today is day 14 from the date of service and we have a smoking gun:

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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: TFL, code 31- entering and stopping in a box junction, Homerton High Street,
« Reply #11 on: »
Looks like Tribunal time then.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: TFL, code 31- entering and stopping in a box junction, Homerton High Street,
« Reply #12 on: »
DNC'ed.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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