Author Topic: 50L Performing a Prohibited Turn - No Left Turn  (Read 385 times)

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50L Performing a Prohibited Turn - No Left Turn
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Got a PCN from Merton council for taking a left turn where I wasn't supposed to. Not much of a story in this instance, just that I made a last minute turn as I just wanted to check the map and wanted to pull over somewhere safe to do so and didn't realise I cannot turn left from there. Should I just pay the PCN?
The only thing I noticed was that there are no signs displayed to show there is a camera in operation; other than that all the signs seem pretty clear. [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

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« Last Edit: January 14, 2025, 04:28:23 pm by traz »

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Re: 50L Performing a Prohibited Turn - No Left Turn
« Reply #1 on: »
Prominent NLT sign here: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/GSnd1R8NwbtUGRMT8
Then NLT sign on the traffic lights.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/xNVRsf17SZB3UG4S9

Based on your narrative, I see no credible appeal argument, but tell us more, like was the advance warning sign obscured by a bus or high-sided vehicle etc ? There is only one signal here so you could follow a high-sided vehicle and miss the NLT sign. But you need to tell us.


Re: 50L Performing a Prohibited Turn - No Left Turn
« Reply #2 on: »
Upon checking google maps I can see there is a sign before the traffic light. At the time I didn't see it and like you mentioned there's also a sign on the traffic light. In terms of things obstructing my view, I honestly can't remember.

As far as I can remember the context is I just wanted to pull over somewhere to check the map on my phone and I decided to take a left last minute which is probably why I missed all the signs.


Does anyone know how I can upload a picture of the pcn without the need to download it so everyone can view it?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2025, 08:54:23 pm by traz »

Re: 50L Performing a Prohibited Turn - No Left Turn
« Reply #3 on: »

Re: 50L Performing a Prohibited Turn - No Left Turn
« Reply #4 on: »
Is there any defence for this or should I just pay the pcn?

Re: 50L Performing a Prohibited Turn - No Left Turn
« Reply #5 on: »
Is there any defence for this or should I just pay the pcn?
There may be a 'technical' appeal unrelated to the contravention itself based on council mismanagement of the enforcement process or a fatal error on the PCN. Others more expert than me will hopefully comment.

Re: 50L Performing a Prohibited Turn - No Left Turn
« Reply #6 on: »
Assuming a high sided vehicle was blocking the sign as I was going past, would this be a valid appeal as there is only one sign to the left as you approach the signal - except for the sign on the traffic light itself.

Also I believe the 14 days since I received the PCN are going to be up. I think I want to make my representation tonight.

Re: 50L Performing a Prohibited Turn - No Left Turn
« Reply #7 on: »
Just submit reps on the basis that you missed the advance sign, probably because it was obscured by a high-side vehicle, and you were following a large vehicle so also missed seeing the traffic lights.

Re: 50L Performing a Prohibited Turn - No Left Turn
« Reply #8 on: »
Thanks. I'll submit the appeal on the assumption that a high sided vehicle was obstructing my view of the sign.
Could they not come back and show the video evidence which doesn't have a high sided vehicle?

Re: 50L Performing a Prohibited Turn - No Left Turn
« Reply #9 on: »
Thanks. I'll submit the appeal on the assumption that a high sided vehicle was obstructing my view of the sign.
Could they not come back and show the video evidence which doesn't have a high sided vehicle?
Whoa, don't tell porkies, just say it was likely you never saw the signs because you could have been following a high-sided vehicle, but cannot remember the exact circumstances.

If you go onto their website you can view the video

Re: 50L Performing a Prohibited Turn - No Left Turn
« Reply #10 on: »
Okay thanks. I'll say I was probably following a high sided vehicle.
Yeah that's what I meant, there doesn't appear to anything in front of my vehicle as I made the left turn. There could have been near the sign but at least near the traffic light I wouldn't say there was anything obstructing my view.

The appeal only allows me to write a 1000 characters.

Re: 50L Performing a Prohibited Turn - No Left Turn
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote
The appeal only allows me to write a 1000 characters.

These online forms usually allow one to attach evidence. If so, best to write properly formatted reps, save as pdf and attach and write See attached in the box.

Post your draft here for comment before sending, but do not miss deadline.

Re: 50L Performing a Prohibited Turn - No Left Turn
« Reply #12 on: »
Okay thanks. I'll say I was probably following a high sided vehicle.
Yeah that's what I meant, there doesn't appear to anything in front of my vehicle as I made the left turn. There could have been near the sign but at least near the traffic light I wouldn't say there was anything obstructing my view.

The appeal only allows me to write a 1000 characters.
There is no high-sided vehicle in the video. In fact there seems to be a significant gap before your vehicle appears, so why say there 'probably' was? I would leave this out as, on the evidence, it impacts on the credibility of your argument.

Re: 50L Performing a Prohibited Turn - No Left Turn
« Reply #13 on: »
This will be my response

I wish to appeal the above PCN issued by CCTV on the following grounds:

1. Section 48 of the The Secretary of State's Statutory Guidance to Local Authorities on the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions states "The Secretary of State recommends that approved devices are used only where enforcement is difficult or sensitive and CEO enforcement is not practical". Section 87 of the Traffic Management Act states that local authorities must give regard to this guidance.

2. The IOC CCTV code of conduct states that warning signs should be placed where CCTV is in use. No such signs were in place in the location where this PCN was issued therefore it is invalid. This has been confirmed at Adjudicator by the case of Rachel Johnson v Wirral. Quote form the code of conduct:

"You must let people know that they are in an area where CCTV surveillance is being carried out. The most effective way of doing this is by using prominently placed signs at the entrance to the CCTV zone and reinforcing this with further signs inside the area. ....... Clear and prominent signs are particularly important where the cameras themselves are very discreet, or in locations where people might not expect to be under surveillance. As a general rule, signs should be more prominent and frequent where it would otherwise be less obvious to people that they are on CCTV

Signs should:

• Be clearly visible and readable;
• Contain details of the organisation operating the system, the purpose for using CCTV and who to contact about the scheme (where these things are not obvious to those being monitored); and
• Be an appropriate size depending on context, for example, whether they are viewed by pedestrians or car drivers."

I do not believe that the 'no left turn' sign was sufficient as I believe a high sided vehicle was blocking the view of the signage prior to the turn.

I do not believe that the above mentioned guidelines have been satisfied nor the case for MTC - Wimbledon Road JW Worple Road, as I did not see any signage to warn of CCTV, nor do I believe that it is justified to be observing vehicles at 19:12 for minor alleged contraventions which pose little to zero risk to other road users. I do not believe that a contravention has taken place on the pure basis that my vehicle was not causing obstruction nor a danger to other road users, hence I trust the PCN will be cancelled taking the above into consideration and the fact that this is a first time alleged contravention on my part.

If you reject my appeal please send with your response a copy of the relevant traffic order and proof that the camera in use is an approved device as well as the camera safety and maintenance logs. Please consider this a request under the freedom of information act. I wish to also request the following information should my appeal be rejected:

• The CCTV camera's instruction manual for operation as well as information regarding the amount of PCN's issued using this CCTV camera, and the frequency of PCN's issued.
• Road maintenance logs, and information regarding the time and date the no left turn markings were inspected and if necessary, re-painted
• Information about the amount of PCN's issued around the Merton area due to alleged 'no left turn' offences
• Information about the amount of successful and unsuccessful appeals to alleged 'no left turn' offences around the Merton area
• Information about the amount of PCN's issued across the London area via CCTV for alleged no left turn offences and further to this, information about the amount of successful and unsuccessful appeals to alleged no left turn offences within the London area.
• Information on the amount of revenue generated through PCN's issued due to no left turn offences
• Information on the amount of vehicles involved in accidents within the Merton area, and within the London area due to no left turn offences.
• Information on the amount of PCN's that have been successfully appealed for other no left turn offences across the Merton area, and the London area

I request the above information only in the event that my PCN is not cancelled. This is to ensure that I have all evidence relevant to my case should this proceed further and if I may need to go to an adjudicator later on.

After further inspection of the local area where the alleged contravention took place, it’s clear that there has been a breech of the IOC CCTV Code of conduct on Merton council's part. I must also stress that in the unlikely event that my grounds for appeal aren’t taken seriously, I will be taking this matter further and contacting an adjudicator.