Author Topic: 27 - Parked in a special enforcement area adjacent to a footway, lowered ... STREATHAM  (Read 1582 times)

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@LemonTootski this is a really easy appeal, in fact I am somewhat skeptical that they will even bother to contest.

I would have offered to represent you but I see Pastmybest has already offered his assistance, with someone of his experience (he's far from past his best!) it's basically a done deal.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Hi @cp8759, sorry for delay, I've also been on Holiday but also recovering from a tummy bug; such is Thai seafood !<br>


So just getting back to this. Regarding Lambeth [nasty] Council's rejection of my representation, can you give me advise on how to proceed further? Noting the points by @PastMyBest (great name btw):<br>

    <ul>
            <li>The lowered footpath is not to allow vehicles to cross, as they have nowhere to go.</li>
            <li>It is not for cyclists as there is no cycle track.</li>
            <li>It is not for pedestrians as there is no corresponding lowered footpath on the opposite side of the road.</li>
        </ul>
How do I proceed further with appeal to adjudicator (I've never gone this far before in a contravention case).

<br>Oh, and @Hippocrates, it seems you're right. I've researched other cases with this Enforcement officer P**** T***** ...but I won't go into that.

Do I draft an appeal letter? How do I word it, taking these points into account, and perhaps a precedent of the Mendy case?

Any advice on how to proceed further with this case would help.

<br>P>S - I just want to say that, win or lose, fine or no fine, I've never had so much fun reading the cases in this forum, education myself and learning all the devious tricks Authorities get up to. Who knew Traffic law could be such fun, right ?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2024, 09:05:43 am by LemonTootski »
A Lemon Tootski - a term I call for that lovely lemon Fixed Penalty Sticker that appears on your windscreen, after a nice day out with the kids.

A Lemon Tootski: The only souvenir from your family day out that really sticks with you!

I have sent you a PM if you respond with the info required i will represent you at tribunal

You have one week left to register the appeal so don,t delay
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@LemonTootski I'd suggest you take up Pastmybest's offer of representation.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Hi,

Yep, replying to PastMyBest's private email now, and getting my documents over to him.

Will keep this thread posted...
A Lemon Tootski - a term I call for that lovely lemon Fixed Penalty Sticker that appears on your windscreen, after a nice day out with the kids.

A Lemon Tootski: The only souvenir from your family day out that really sticks with you!

I have the docs so everything i need and will register the appeal over the weekend
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ENDGAME:

I am thrilled to confirm that Lambeth Council will not contest the appeal!

Just to quickly recap -
- I made representations against this PCN
- Lambeth Council rejected my representation.
- A formal appeal was then made to the tribunal by this forum's PastMyBest, acting on my behalf as my representative.
- Lambeth Council then decided not to contest.

This is fantastic news, and I am absolutely elated. However, I also feel some frustration that the council, knowing they didn't have a solid case when my initial  representation was made, still rejected it and attempted to enforce the PCN to collect fines.

PastMyBest, if you feel, you may want to display the wording you used in the case you made to tribunal, to help others see how this dropped kerb PCN is unenforcable.



Finally, One thing I've learned, it seems Authorities have nothing to lose. When a representation is made, the council's strategy is to often reject it, expecting the complainant to simply pay up rather than mounting a professional challenge like the one PastMyBest did.

Perhaps they realise that if this case did go to tribunal and they lose, it sets a precedent for others - ultimately threatening their cash-cow making revenue stream So, they'd rather not contest my case when faced with a knowledgeable and professional challenge. Instead they write this off, and continue to collect fines from those who lack the resources or will to fight back.

And so, people will innocently continue to park at area, and Lambeth will continue to fine and rake it in.
As PastMyBest quoted:

''Never ascribe to malice what can be put down to incompetence. CEO,s do not need nor have high level qualifications  ''

If money-traps like these are continued year after year, and many people call them out yet the practice (unenforceable PCNs) continues... it is certainly not incompetence.

Anyway, glad to see this case is resolved. Amazing work, PastMyBest.

Once again, thank you for all your support (CP8759) and everyone else, and heartfelt respect to PastMyBest.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2024, 01:33:29 pm by LemonTootski »
A Lemon Tootski - a term I call for that lovely lemon Fixed Penalty Sticker that appears on your windscreen, after a nice day out with the kids.

A Lemon Tootski: The only souvenir from your family day out that really sticks with you!

I did not submit anything to the tribunal other than a statement to the effect that i would rely on the representations and further submissions once the council respond. I fully expected a DNC

My tactic if needed would have been to point out why the DK did not meet any of the statutory requirements of s86 of the TMA pointing out that the representation outlined these and that even so the council did not identify which of the requirements was met.

I would then have argued that in not explaining why the PCN was issued ( which of the statutory requirements was met) then the council had not considered the reps as required

Then I would argue that the council had not complied with the requirement to submit to the tribunal a true copy of the PCN the representation and the notice of rejection within 7 days of being notified of an appeal

I was a good 95% confident of winning,

Do not ascribe to malice what can be put down to incompetence is correct The council fully believe that if a DK is in place that is enough and still will do. The argument has been put and we have won on it many many times but at the same time cases have lost when the argument has not been well made.

Don't get worked up about it, we need a change in the law so that a panel of adjudicators can make binding findings but that's not likely
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Don't get worked up about it, we need a change in the law so that a panel of adjudicators can make binding findings but that's not likely
I take a different view, what we really need is a route of appeal to the Upper Tribunal. In Scotland that's what they've done and now any first-instance decision can be appealed on a point of law to the Upper Tribunal for Scotland, there's no reason why the same cannot be done in England & Wales.

And well done to everyone for seeing this one through to the end.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

I see your point and there should be a low/no cost way of taking a review to a higher court, but i still think allowing that a panel or even the chief adjudicator can determine that a finding be binding could remove the need for review in any case And stop some of the bonkers decisions of some adjudicators that just do not follow the law in any case

That would not stop a panel/chief adjudicators decision being challenged by a higher court as is now the case but would cut out some what can only be called petulance by some adjudicators face with some perfectly valid appeal points

I have just drafted a letter to a member for her MP in the same terms.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

I have just drafted a letter to a member for her MP in the same terms.

Dear MP

I am writing to complain about the lack of consistency at the London Tribunals. Some months ago I lost a case against Lewisham Council and yet my representative was successful in another two cases using basically the same arguments.  This is not fair and amounts to a lottery system depending on which adjudicator hears your case.

I cite the decisions in full below for your information.

I would also appreciate it if you would pass on my concerns to the MP for Lewisham and the Minister of Transport in  terms of the Tribunal’s inconsistency. Indeed, you will see that one adjudicator, *********, has even allowed one case, but not the review of mine.

I attach the most recent case won by my representative. He was lucky to have ******  hear the appeals. Not *******.

I am a single working mother and do not have the time or money to go to the High Court. I am also concerned that my representative was not allowed an application for a second review. This begs the question of having a more senior adjudicator to hear reviews rather than a peer: the Chief Adjudicator is merely primus inter pares. His/her decisions can be reviewed by a peer. If a higher Tribunal as in Scotland were provided, then that would spare the expense of having to go to the High Court.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Yours sincerely

*******

Actually, I am going to beef it up a little and write to the Lord Chief Justice. And include the fiasco re appeals being refused for 18 years at the Tribunal re 34j contraventions.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2024, 11:25:51 am by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

I see your point and there should be a low/no cost way of taking a review to a higher court, but i still think allowing that a panel or even the chief adjudicator can determine that a finding be binding could remove the need for review in any case And stop some of the bonkers decisions of some adjudicators that just do not follow the law in any case

That would not stop a panel/chief adjudicators decision being challenged by a higher court as is now the case but would cut out some what can only be called petulance by some adjudicators face with some perfectly valid appeal points

@Pastmybest The main problem is getting a decision on signage overturned. It seems to be at the sole discretion of each adjudicator.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r