Author Topic: 12R: Vehicle in residents permit holder bay without permit.  (Read 400 times)

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Background: LBTH is not contacting residents before permit expiry. Before we had postal reminders and physcial permits they sent to us via post. We had a date clearly visible on permit. The moved to paperless permits a few years ago and sent 2 email reminders to renew. Then the went down to 1 renewal a MONTH before expiry. Lately they are not sending any reminders at all. I have this confirmed by other residents who have experienced the same. No reminder that annual/bi-annual permit has expired.






My representation
Quote
I have three main grounds of appeal
1) The photo evidence shows my vehicle starting at 10:09 to 10:11, 2 minutes span. LBTH allows vehicles to stop to load passengers for up to 5 minutes. The photo evidence does not prove the traffic warden observed the vehicle stationary for at least 5 minutes.

2) The traffic warden has issued the ticket under contravention code 12R – parking without valid permit. Since my vehicle has an expired residents permit THZ2767951, the correct contravention code to use is 19 which incurs a lesser charge.  The traffic warden has issued the ticket under the incorrect coding which penalises me more than it should.

3) I had a valid resident’s permit code THZ2767951. I usually receive an email reminder before the permit is expiring/expired. Over the years the LBTH has been getting worse and worse at reminding permit holders about renewal. I have attached a view of my email from LBTH.  You can see this year I have not received any emails from tower hamlets this time round for upcoming expiring of tickets.

You can see that the council used to send out 2 reminder emails back in 2022. Then in 2023 they started to only send out one email. Now in 2024/25 it seems they do not send any emails out at all. I have checked both my inbox and junk mail and cannot see a reminder asking me to renew my permit. 

I always keep up to date on all bills, with motoring related stuff I always stay current with my insurance, car tax, mot and usually my residents permit too. But Taranto permits has completely failed to update me of expiring permits and I was none the wiser. Given that resident’s permits are now completely digital with no physical windscreen permits – I feel tower hamlets needs to send out emails and other reminders about upcoming expiring permits.



I provided screenshot of my inbox with my representation:

***email inbox removed as it contained identifying personal info***


They rejected my informal appeal.




« Last Edit: July 11, 2025, 12:06:02 am by Plywood-Enthusiast »

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Re: 12R: Vehicle in residents permit holder bay without permit.
« Reply #1 on: »
might be a bit pedantic, but 12R has failed to print correctly, I still have the original ticket. Does that make the ticket flawed?

Re: 12R: Vehicle in residents permit holder bay without permit.
« Reply #2 on: »
When did the permit expire.

They fettered discretion with 'unable to consider cancellation'.

Decisions recently at the tribunal are not favourably to those who say they rely on reminders but does H&F say they will be sent.

Re: 12R: Vehicle in residents permit holder bay without permit.
« Reply #3 on: »
it was a long time after expiry. Expired Nov 2024, got PCN on May 2025.

The council uses taranto permits.

The t&C does not state anything about reminders.

Quote
source: https://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/lgnl/transport_and_streets/Parking/Terms_and_conditions/Resident_parking_permit_terms_and_conditions.aspx

10.1 You can renew your permit through your online account up to 28 days before it expires.

10.2  It is solely your responsibility to renew your permit and avoid any Penalty Charge Notices, even if you do not receive a reminder notice.

10.3  If you do not renew your permit, you will have to apply for a new one. If there is already an active permit at the property, you will lose your rank and have to pay a surcharge.


I have asked many residents of this and experienced the same with my spouse. She didnt receive a reminder in her recent expiry either.

The council uses taranto permits and is a terrible system that only until very recently was made mobile friendly. Before a few years ago you needed to use a desktop computer to navigate and use it.

The taranto permits susyem just erases the permit after expiry, you cannot see any of your past permits or expires permits on the system. It's made on a budget or with very rudimentry specifications. I think they just have some bug with with software that's never been fixed and it's just not sending out emails.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2025, 03:04:03 pm by Plywood-Enthusiast »

Re: 12R: Vehicle in residents permit holder bay without permit.
« Reply #4 on: »
I'm passed my £80 discount duration (officially), but paying £80 option is still available to me.

If I have less than fair chance of winning on tribunal, please let me know. I'll pay at discount before midnight (I assume they work out the discount eligibility based on calender days with some grace for postage delays).

Re: 12R: Vehicle in residents permit holder bay without permit.
« Reply #5 on: »
I meant TH not H&F...

Anyway you've had a huge grace period so you can't really complain about a code 12 PCN.

I take it you've now got a permit - what date did it start?

Re: 12R: Vehicle in residents permit holder bay without permit.
« Reply #6 on: »
I meant TH not H&F...

;D I just assumed H&F was the new name for terms and conditions and answered accordingly.


Anyway you've had a huge grace period so you can't really complain about a code 12 PCN.

I take it you've now got a permit - what date did it start?

I applied for new residents permit the same day I got the PCN. I only knew permit lapsed when I saw the ticket.

I though lack of notice was a reasonable ground, just common sense everyone sends reminders to renew. insurance, even MOT reminders via text from gov.uk, breakdown, council tax, utility etc. Everyone is going digitial so they send reminders. I feel that council has an interest in letting permits lapse so they can get PCNs.

Nobody pays for an annual/biannul service and puts a reminder on their phone to renew. Every service provider, energy company, council tax, insruance etc will remind you at anniversary.

Anyway, My permit costs £190 a year. And I got 6 months of residents parking without paying. SO the £80 covers the backpay. Should I just pay it now. Or wait for other opinions on this?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2025, 03:32:58 pm by Plywood-Enthusiast »

Re: 12R: Vehicle in residents permit holder bay without permit.
« Reply #7 on: »
Some of us are more organised than others...

Anyway you've pretty much talked yourself into paying £80 which I think you should do.

Must say I'm surprised you weren't ticketed earlier but see you're at the bottom of the Isle of Dogs. If you were in other parts of TH you would have been.

Re: 12R: Vehicle in residents permit holder bay without permit.
« Reply #8 on: »
Some of us are more organised than others...

Anyway you've pretty much talked yourself into paying £80 which I think you should do.

Must say I'm surprised you weren't ticketed earlier but see you're at the bottom of the Isle of Dogs. If you were in other parts of TH you would have been.

All paid, yes it was actually a little bit cheaper for me to get pcn. i FIGURED THEY MIGHT JUST increase it at close of business, not by midnight, so I've settled it.

The wardens come round here in waves, over here its quiet and there's ample parking spaces. But the lack of reminder is an issue. The wardens come once in a blue moon and you see 5-6 cars on one road with tickets.