Hi, I received a PCN from Redbridge council for entering Sydney Road, Barkingside. Been entering this road for years and only realised they had this restriction, and worse I entered just to park on the side to use the cashpoint for the barbers, so I was literally there for only 2 minutes. I have seen some posts on this forum around this one being challenged for the sign. Appreciate any help if there are grounds to challenge or consider it as a very expensive haircut!
PCN here:
Some photos of the sign:
The 2nd thread this week where the signs have been placed excessively high up. There is no possible need for the blue sign; it is not a traffic sign, not is there really any need for the camera sign. If these were omitted, the sign could be respositioned lower down, and hence more in a driver's line of sight.
Can you please post a GSV link to the location
This is the GSV link but it's from 2018 so doesn't show the new signs in place:
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You're right there, lots of information on the signs, some unnecessary and very high up, how can a driver assess all that in a couple of seconds whilst turning into the road
We need to know if there are any advance warning signs on the main road in either direction. If you can go and have a look and take photos, it will help. Absence of advance signs makes your reps stronger.
I checked today and these signs appear either side of the road:
The presence of these advance warning signs makes it much more difficult to overturn a PCN on signage (inadequacy). At the moment, I see only excessive height of the signs incl the advance signs as well.
There may be a 'technical' appeal based on Redbridge's mismanagement of the enforcement process, so wait a bit to see what may be possible, but don't miss any deadlines on the PCN.
I'd like to add, the first sign that OP has posted (the advance notice sign) is more often than not obscured by the double decker busses that stop at the bus stop. If you are approaching the junction travelling southbound (towards Gants Hill) and there is a bus or two at the stop, that sign will be missed. Immediately before the bus stop, there is a Yellow Box junction - there is so much stuff drivers are expected to look out for, IMO the signs are deliberately placed too high.
The second photograph is when you're travelling northbound towards Fullwell Cross - while this isn't at a bus stop, I have to ask why the junction is shown as a T junction on the advanced notice sign - it isn't a T junction at all.
So really, if the OP wants to stand his ground, there is an answer to the advance signs visibility. Of course the full PCN penalty will be in play at London Tribunals as always.
Totally, if the OP has dashcam footage of their approach to the junction, it may assist (if its obscured by a bus) - that's if they want to take it to the Adjudicator. As you rightly point out, its the full amount at play.
Always Appeal. If they deny you, you still get the time to pay at the discounted rate but even then, push for the tribunal. We are unfortunetly dealing with a corrupt system that tries to fleece money out of working people, builds a system that actively works against you to get the money back, and new ways for you to break rules so they have the legal reason to pursue you for money. Treat them like thugs under the guise of "law and order"
If the main sign which has all the important information is too high you can argue that its not visible to you and it breaks the TSRGD regulations. Along with this being a busy road with buses covering the early warning signs, pedestrians crossing, cars parking or leaving, this would be highly distracting. You may not have enough time to read this sign and with the blue sign below being more distinct, you would catch it first before reading the important information.
You can also argue the sign at the road turning isnt visible until you make the turn, checking google maps its only eligible when your on the turn. By then you have a yellow box to deal with, oncoming cars and not enough time or space to reasonably avoid the road. The signage is displayed in such a way that a motorist not able to safely take evasive action to avoid the prohibited route, trying to stop in the middle of the road when turning into the road would cause accidents with oncoming traffic, as well as a PCN in the yellow box. Trying to back out would do the same with opposite traffic. This would create an entrapment situation.
Those early warning signs are right next to the bus stop, you get 2, 3 or 4 buses that would park behind the stop therefore covering it. Absence of dashcam footage doesnt mean this didnt happen, especially if you can photograph the buses there at some point during the day.
Also state the camera doesnt show what a real life motorist would see when driving down this road, for example those pre warning signs being covered, not on the side which a driver would see or not being at eye level like those on the actual road.
Go onto the tribunals website and find other people who have successfully appealed this based on those ground and use it as an added reference.
If the council want your money, make them work for it at the very least.
Thanks for the advice, I have appealed and tribunal date is set for 24th November. Appreciate if anyone can help with representation at the tribunal.
I have included all the photos as evidence and appealed on the basis that the restriction was not adequately conveyed to a reasonably observant driver because the advance warning sign and the restriction sign are mounted at excessive heights and are not conspicuous from the approach. As a result I could not reasonably be expected to see and read the signs in time to avoid entering the restricted area.
What was the outcome?
Tribunal date 24th November
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