Manchester - Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours - St John Street, paid parking bays

Hi All,

Another day another unexpected parking ticket!
I went out with the family for a birthday meal, parked in a parking space on the road and although we checked the operational hours for buying a ticket (0800-2000), there was a ticket on the car on our return.

Here's the ticket:


Here's the google maps streetview link

I took photos of the signage on the road and can now see that the yellow clearway sign states 8pm - 8am for the restriction, so all other times will require a parking ticket. Another thread on this is here: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/manchester-council-contravention-01-st-john-st/msg95425/?topicseen#msg95425 and is basically for the same issue.

My question about this is whether an appeal is likely to succeed given that there does appear to have been a violation due to not seeing or reading the clearway hours correctly and therefore assuming it was fine to park there after 8pm?

As you note we've seen this one before and so have a lot of drivers in Manchester judging by this:



It's not clear why they ban overnight parking there but note it's not a clearway just a yellow line with usual exemptions such as 3 hours for blue badge holders, and boarding and loading.

Also as you were in a designated parking place the CEO has allowed the 10 minute grace by issuing at 20:14. 

The traffic order is in this FOI thread:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/st_john_street_parking_restricti

i think best advice is to pay the discount but wait for others to have a look.

The sign you've posted is not prescribed in these circumstances and confusing, therefore unenforceable IMO.

Is this the authority's evidence? Can you post a link to their photos pl.

The prescribed form states that the parking AND no waiting should be located on the same post, the parking traffic sign being the lower. See p 171 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf

IMO, you could persuade an adjudicator on this point.

You parked in a parking place marked with prescribed road markings. You would therefore expect to see a prescribed traffic sign in the vicinity detailing the restriction e.g. days/hours/payment etc. There isn't any such sign.

You're left to wonder and wander until you see the Pay Here sign. But of itself this doesn't tell the permitted parking times.

What does the ticket machine say?

I agree with tincombe but don't think it's enough to persuade an adjudicator as the yellow line is what it is.

Manchester pay bays are mostly signed 'pay at machine' I think so they have been lazy and just kept those and added an entirely separate yellow line regime without combining the signs as the traffic signs manual stipulates.

As we have no decision register outside London the only way to find out if the tribunal will allow an appeal is to go through the process but you can ask Manchester to justify its departure from the TSM. 

TPT do have a statutory register, but it's not searchable on-line unlike London Tribunals. They get away with this as adjudications are not courts of record, as I understand it, but there can be no legal reason as far as I can see, or else LT would have been walloped years ago

What does the ticket machine say?

Here are the photos we took after seeing the ticket on the car...







To the left of the car, there was a ticket machine and there was a post, next to a tree, near to that.

But this is NOT the council's evidence, it's yours.

Why would you want to throw the council a lifeline?

And there's something odd about the timings here. The PCN obs time of 8.11 suggests that the car was parked during the period 8pm to 8.11pm (thereby giving you 10 minutes' 'grace') and that therefore you parked before 8pm, in which case you should have paid. But you've not mentioned paying.

When did you park and did you pay?

Hi @tincombe,

We parked there after 8pm... if I were to be exact, it was at 20:01-20:02 as we arrived there earlier, went around the block in traffic and then came back, after seeing no other space and assuming that it was free to park at after 20:00, therefore we did not buy a ticket.