3. TFL judicial review
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andy_foster

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Re: TFL judicial review
« Reply #60 on: March 12, 2024, 04:32:42 pm »
Quote from: DWMB2 on March 12, 2024, 04:17:28 pm
If they were doing so, these appeals to the tribunal would surely fail, and thus they wouldn't be 'denied' the associated revenue.

Ahh, but the tribunal mistakenly applied the law as it was written, rather than how it was required to be re-imagined in favour of TfL in order to avoid any accusation of the courts making up the law themselves, as Swift J decided (when he also decided that you could have custard with the cheese board).
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Southpaw82

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Re: TFL judicial review
« Reply #61 on: March 12, 2024, 06:24:12 pm »
Quote from: Scientist and Saint on March 12, 2024, 04:30:56 pm
[edit]Modified because how I described Mr. Garrett in the original post got changed by a mod to "****", which made it look like I'd called him something far worse than what I actually did, and thus made me look bad[/edit]

Changed by the forum software automatically, not by a moderator manually.
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guest968

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Re: TFL judicial review
« Reply #62 on: March 12, 2024, 08:37:13 pm »
Oh, OK.
 
Settings must be ultrasensitive
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cp8759

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Re: TFL judicial review
« Reply #63 on: March 13, 2024, 09:59:38 pm »
So, I've just seen a PCN for code 99 on a red route.

Do we think a road marked with pedestrian zig-zags that happens to be on a red route is also marked "in accordance with" a DRL or SRL?
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andy_foster

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Re: TFL judicial review
« Reply #64 on: March 13, 2024, 10:41:03 pm »
It means the entire red route - which is why the relevant provision contains a definition which requires both red lines and an upright, just so that people can tell that the intention was that the definition must be read widely enough so that it means the entire length of the red route, but without saying so because they could have done but didn't, and the definition isn't wide enough to cover the entire length of the named road, because that would be absurd.
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cp8759

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Re: TFL judicial review
« Reply #65 on: March 14, 2024, 09:15:25 am »
But is a pedestrian crossing part of a red route? It's been held that it interrupts a bus lane, see Neville Stanley v London Borough of Lambeth (2170474513, 1 June 2017).

Arguably a pedestrian crossing is similarly incompatible with a red route restriction and its provisions must trump the TMO, so I'd argue it cannot be part of the red route at all. After all a parking bay is there to convey the effect of the red route TMO, while the pedestrian crossing is a section 36 sign.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

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guest968

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Re: TFL judicial review
« Reply #66 on: March 15, 2024, 12:10:45 am »
Quote from: cp8759 on March 14, 2024, 09:15:25 am
But is a pedestrian crossing part of a red route? It's been held that it interrupts a bus lane, see Neville Stanley v London Borough of Lambeth (2170474513, 1 June 2017).
1) I wonder if any bus drivers have been prosecuted for overtaking on the left?

2) Is there any way that anybody can think of whereby the illiterate ignoramuses who have decided that overtaking on the left should be called "undertaking" can be locked  up and banned from ever saying anything in public ever again?


Quote from: cp8759 on March 14, 2024, 09:15:25 am
Arguably a pedestrian crossing is similarly incompatible with a red route restriction and its provisions must trump the TMO, so I'd argue it cannot be part of the red route at all.
But you're also not allowed to stop on a pedestrian crossing or its zig-zags.  What you're charged with  would be different, but unlike Mr Stanley you'd not be not guilty of an offence.
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Hippocrates

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Re: TFL judicial review
« Reply #67 on: March 15, 2024, 10:04:04 pm »
Quote from: cp8759 on March 10, 2024, 05:08:09 pm
It is worth noting there are approximately 900 outstanding review cases which are affected by this decision.

Mr Garrett helpfully stated at the hearing that a review should be allowed to proceed because it would be in the public interest for TFL to collect the money from those penalties, and that if TFL could not collect the money it would have to look at other ways of raising revenue.

So much for only enforcing for traffic management purposes...
One other and I were there as observers.  To put it mildly, Mr Teper was not impressed. Also Pat Garrett mentioned it was in the interests of all London authorities.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2024, 10:09:25 pm by Hippocrates »
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How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

guest968

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Re: TFL judicial review
« Reply #68 on: March 16, 2024, 07:39:20 pm »
Quote from: Hippocrates on March 15, 2024, 10:04:04 pm
.... Pat Garrett ...
Is it the Wild West out there? :lol:
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Hippocrates

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Re: TFL judicial review
« Reply #69 on: March 20, 2024, 04:07:32 pm »
Well, I observed a hearing just before Christmas and he was quite rude then. Both the CA and I shared a look of disbelief with each other.  Being a good boy, I said nothing.
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How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899
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  3. TFL judicial review