Author Topic: No Right Turn = No U Turn ?  (Read 197 times)

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John_S

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No Right Turn = No U Turn ?
« on: July 08, 2024, 01:06:35 pm »
If a driver u-turns immediately after a ĎNo Right Turní sign, does s/he commit a contravention? Does anyone know of any adjudicator decisions on this question please?

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DrSatan

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Re: No Right Turn = No U Turn ?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2024, 01:26:12 pm »
It'll depend on the wording of the traffic order in place. Most prohibitions will be worded along the lines of 'Motor vehicles are prohibited from turning right from Main Street into Side Street', so a u-turn on Main Street should be ok unless expressly forbidden.

At your own risk, obviously. If the pigs see you doing it and it's one of the stupider ones they might still pull you over.
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John_S

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Re: No Right Turn = No U Turn ?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2024, 02:40:54 pm »
@DrSatan, thanks for the prompt reply.

666

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Re: No Right Turn = No U Turn ?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2024, 03:35:49 pm »
It'll depend on the wording of the traffic order in place. Most prohibitions will be worded along the lines of 'Motor vehicles are prohibited from turning right from Main Street into Side Street', so a u-turn on Main Street should be ok unless expressly forbidden.

I may be completely wrong, but ... the meaning of the NRT sign (as per TSRGD 2016, sh3, part 2) is simply "No right turn for vehicular traffic", with no ifs or buts about specific destinations. It is not possible to perform a U-turn without turning right.

slapdash

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Re: No Right Turn = No U Turn ?
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2024, 06:42:16 pm »
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes/rules-of-red-routes/banned-turns

TFL offer some guidance (which happens to correlate with 666). It says what you may do rather than what you may not.

I recall a couple of threads where it was an issue, but cannot remember the outcome.


John_S

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Re: No Right Turn = No U Turn ?
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2024, 08:54:14 pm »
Quote
It is not possible to perform a U-turn without turning right.
That's basically how I interpret the sign.

I was involved in a case in 2007 where a vehicle appeared to 3-point-turn after a NRT sign. The adjudicator allowed the appeal because the Authority failed to provide a TMO. But he remarked that he probably wouldnít have allowed it on the basis that a u-turn was performed.

Iím specifically thinking about Aldwych/Strand (s/w bound) junction of Wellington Street (cycle track).

DrSatan

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Re: No Right Turn = No U Turn ?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2024, 09:44:32 am »
Iím specifically thinking about Aldwych/Strand (s/w bound) junction of Wellington Street (cycle track).
Yeah, you're hosed.

The traffic order has a hatched area on wellington street which says only pedal cycles can enter, but it also says "No person shall cause any vehicle to enter the area of the carriageway which lies between the island sites" and you can't u-turn without breaching that.

John_S

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Re: No Right Turn = No U Turn ?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2024, 09:04:23 am »
@DrSatan I'm impressed that you managed to dig-out the order so quickly.

This is very helpful but in 2017 when the order was made, the NRT sign was not in place. Having read the order, it's not clear to me what 'island sites' actually means. If 'island sites' relates to the area of road reserved for buses turning onto Waterloo Bridge - then where's the exemption for buses and cycles? In 2022 (or slightly earlier) the markings were changed and the Aldwych Scheme was completed (with a new NRT sign).

I'll try and dig out the new TMO covering the Aldwych Scheme and see if it extends to this junction.