Reason I ask is the course date is 7 months after the date of the (alleged) speeding offence and my understanding is that they must prosecute within 6 months - so if that 6 month date has been and gone....
Another question, this came up while discussing this with a few friends over a drink, and somebody came up with this, which I found intriguing:
"If you don't rate the content of the course why not ask for your money back or do a chargeback if they refuse? Under the Distance Selling Regulations any product or service must be fit for purpose, if it isn't you're entitled to your money back."
As a retail business owner I thought about this and I think he actually has a valid point. I probably wouldn't try it but it's an interesting point, as the course payment fee is a bill, not a fine. Is he right?
Some interesting points there, and if you don't do the course some different points.
I've done a few of these courses over the years and I've found that sometimes the course tutor (?) asks the wrong question. Rxample, he shows a NSL sign and asks "what is the speed limit here?" Someone raises a valid point, "what am I driving?". A car, bus, lorry, towing a trailer? There's been several similar wrong questions that have slipped my mind.
They have 6 months to instigate court proceedings for the speeding offence, from date of offence. They cannot protectively instigate proceedings (raise the paperwork in case they decide to prosecute and then sit on it until some contingent event occurs/doesn't occur).
The reason that course offers are generally not made much beyond 3 months, and the requirement is generally that courses must be completed by about 4 months is to avoid this issue.
Some interesting points there, and if you don't do the course some different points.
I've done a few of these courses over the years and I've found that sometimes the course tutor (?) asks the wrong question. Rxample, he shows a NSL sign and asks "what is the speed limit here?" Someone raises a valid point, "what am I driving?". A car, bus, lorry, towing a trailer? There's been several similar wrong questions that have slipped my mind.
Yes, your point reminds me of a question about braking or stopping distances I was asked on my driving test, back in the 70's - The examiner asked what the braking (or stopping, can't remember) distance was for a certain speed and I said it was irrelevant as it depended on the condition of the car, brakes etc, the road condition and the driver's reaction time. He said, "I can't really argue with that". I passed.
We had a really interesting conversation and some other points came up too - another one was "What qualifications does the tutor have, based on the point that 'if you don't complete the course to his satisfaction he can refer you back to the police who can then go ahead with a prosecution if they choose to do so'," - i.e. on what legal basis do they define "completing the course to the tutor's satisfaction? I'm probably more experienced than he is!
Love the sig, I was a bus driver too for a while, long time ago.
They have 6 months to instigate court proceedings for the speeding offence, from date of offence. They cannot protectively instigate proceedings (raise the paperwork in case they decide to prosecute and then sit on it until some contingent event occurs/doesn't occur).
The reason that course offers are generally not made much beyond 3 months, and the requirement is generally that courses must be completed by about 4 months is to avoid this issue.
I seem to remember that the paperwork said my course had to be completed within 6 months, but I could be wrong. I remember I was quite surprised as I expected it to be fairly soon, after all aren't they supposed to be teaching us how to drive more safely? If it's important enough to photograph us for going a few miles over the limit I would expect it to be important enough to get the course in front of you as soon as possible.
I'm going to be away for a couple of months (contractual obligation) which may run over time so I chose the latest date I could, that being just 2 days before the date by which I need to complete the course. I'm sure it was 6 months, I'll check, but it will definitely be over 7 months since the date of the offence.
i.e. on what legal basis do they define "completing the course to the tutor's satisfaction?
Courses have no legal basis whatsoever. There is no legislation covering either them being offered, taken or satisfactorily completed. Everything about the process is at the discretion of the police.
I suppose if you paid for a course and the police claim you did not complete it satisfactorily you could make a claim for reimbursement if you could show you did actually complete the course properly. However, legally that would not prevent the police from prosecuting you.
I suppose if they did you would have to to argue that a subsequent prosecution was an "abuse of process". Even though courses are outside the law, the police have taken money from you (via the course provider whom you pay) with a pledge not to prosecute you provided the course is completed satisfactorily.
But that's only guess as it is outside my knowledge.
I'm going to be away for a couple of months (contractual obligation) which may run over time so I chose the latest date I could, that being just 2 days before the date by which I need to complete the course. I'm sure it was 6 months, I'll check, but it will definitely be over 7 months since the date of the offence.
You may find that if you fail to complete the course by the six month deadline (whether you've booked one or not) they may prosecute you. Many forces have a habit of leaving beginning court proceedings until a day or two before the deadline is up. You may return from your trip to find a "Single Justice Procedure Notice" on the doormat.
You have two choices: ring them up to find out or don't. If you do, it my stir them into action when they might not otherwise have done so. If you don't and they do propose to prosecute you, you will be faced with much larger bill and penalty points.
Thanks, appreciated.
Re. the first part, there seems to be very little information on this, the only thing I can determine is that you "may" be reported to the police who "may" consider prosecuting you for the offence if the course is not completed to the tutor's satisfaction.
I'm just curious on what basis the police could prosecute you if the course is "not completed satisfactorily" as there are no rules (or even guidelines as far as I can tell) that define what is meant by completing the course satisfactorily...and if they can prosecute you at all if the course date doesn't occur until 7 months after the date of the offence.
Re. the second part, I think you've misinterpreted my comment. I'm not suggesting I'm going to be away when the course is due to take place, what I'm saying is I deliberately left it as late as possible because I know that I'm shortly going to be away for a couple of months. It may be longer but it's highly unlikely that I won't be back before the start of the course, I just wanted to make sure I reduced the (outside) possibility of that occurring by booking the course as late as possible.
The basis for any prosecution for speeding is the allegation and evidence that you were speeding. That should not need to be explained.
You have now decided to drip feed us with a vague reference to a stipulation that the course must be completed within a timescale that precedes your course date. If they decide to instigate court proceedings on or after that date, but within 6 months of the date of the alleged offence, then the legal basis for the prosecution would be as described at the top of this post.
Sorry, but I have not "decided to drip feed (you) with a vague reference to a stipulation that the course must be completed within a timescale that precedes (my) course date". I don't even fully understand your comment; In fact the exact opposite is true - I specifically stated in my very first sentence that "the course date is 7 months after the date of the (alleged) speeding offence and my understanding is that they must prosecute within 6 months". I'm not sure what part of that is causing any confusion.
I'm not disputing any of the content of your first sentence and frankly I've no idea why you even chose to bring it up. All I'm trying to establish is whether or not any action can be taken beyond the 6 month point following the date of the alleged offence as it may also be helpful to others and it's an interesting point GIVEN THAT the paperwork I received suggests that the matter will be referred back to the police and I would be potentially liable for prosecution if the course is not "completed successfully".
It's a simple question, can they prosecute or not in these circumstances given that the course date is 7 months after the date of the alleged offence? I'm not sure what part of that is causing any confusion. My assumption based on my understanding of the 6 month rule is that there is nothing the police or authorities can do.
Sorry, but I have not "decided to drip feed (you) with a vague reference to a stipulation that the course must be completed within a timescale that precedes (my) course date". I don't even fully understand your comment; In fact the exact opposite is true - I specifically stated in my very first sentence that "the course date is 7 months after the date of the (alleged) speeding offence and my understanding is that they must prosecute within 6 months". I'm not sure what part of that is causing any confusion.
I'm not disputing any of the content of your first sentence and frankly I've no idea why you even chose to bring it up. All I'm trying to establish is whether or not any action can be taken beyond the 6 month point following the date of the alleged offence as it may also be helpful to others and it's an interesting point GIVEN THAT the paperwork I received suggests that the matter will be referred back to the police and I would be potentially liable for prosecution if the course is not "completed successfully".*
It's a simple question, can they prosecute or not in these circumstances given that the course date is 7 months after the date of the alleged offence? I'm not sure what part of that is causing any confusion. My assumption based on my understanding of the 6 month rule is that there is nothing the police or authorities can do.
* I've just read part of the terms and this is the relevant part:
"you fail to participate fully during the Course the trainer may ask you to leave. In these instances, you may not be able to reschedule, and you may be referred back to the Police".
There are various similar comments, such as if you fail to appear for the course etc. in which the same scenario would apply. This refers to the AA Drivetech version but I would imagine other speed awareness courses have similar terms. I don't have a copy of the original form to hand but it definitely included a comment which stated that if you failed to complete the course "to the trainer's satisfaction" that it may be referred back to the police.
Not sure how much more information I can add to clarify the point.