Author Topic: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?  (Read 33820 times)

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #75 on: »
I attended the Court of Appeal hearing re Beavis v Parking Eye and sat next to Patrick Troy. I think he had to wake me up a few times. Quite a few other famous campaigners were there too......not implying I am famous or even was at the time.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2025, 03:33:14 pm by Hippocrates »
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #76 on: »
Hi all, I’ve built a free tool that I think could be helpful for people to start fighting their PCNs. The tool is:

pcnpal.co.uk

It’s in its infancy so there are still bugs to work out and features to add. Some of the templates we provide probably aren’t optimal so it would be great to get some feedback on what can be improved.

Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #77 on: »
@thepcnguy from a quick look at least some of the information provided is outright wrong, so I'd suggest you want to put a big banner at the top stating this is tool is in beta testing and should not be relied upon by anyone for any purpose, and nobody should challenge a PCN based on the information it generates.

That's not to say that it doesn't have potential, but some of the information given would actually harm the motorist's chances on appeal. I do not (and will not) have the time to go through every possible scenario and permutation for you, and the other problem is that it would need to be constantly maintained: tactics change all the time as councils change their processes and policies, find new ways to mess things up, the tribunal jurisprudence eveloes and so on.

Ultimately I very much doubt you'll be able to tell anyone that they can actually rely on the tool, it might eventually get to the point where it can create a good starting point, but I think you'll always need a qualified person to review the outputs. It might be helpful if it could do something similar to what the NIP wizard used to do on Pepipoo, i.e. gather all the information for a post on this site and then give us a concise summary of the key stuff we need to know to be able to give proper advice.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #78 on: »
@thepcnguy from a quick look at least some of the information provided is outright wrong, so I'd suggest you want to put a big banner at the top stating this is tool is in beta testing and should not be relied upon by anyone for any purpose, and nobody should challenge a PCN based on the information it generates.

That's not to say that it doesn't have potential, but some of the information given would actually harm the motorist's chances on appeal. I do not (and will not) have the time to go through every possible scenario and permutation for you, and the other problem is that it would need to be constantly maintained: tactics change all the time as councils change their processes and policies, find new ways to mess things up, the tribunal jurisprudence eveloes and so on.

Ultimately I very much doubt you'll be able to tell anyone that they can actually rely on the tool, it might eventually get to the point where it can create a good starting point, but I think you'll always need a qualified person to review the outputs. It might be helpful if it could do something similar to what the NIP wizard used to do on Pepipoo, i.e. gather all the information for a post on this site and then give us a concise summary of the key stuff we need to know to be able to give proper advice.

Ok, I've removed the blog posts and added the beta testing warning banner for now. I will have a think about how I can make this work. If anyone has any suggestions on what I could do to make it work let me know.

Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #79 on: »
Ok, I've removed the blog posts and added the beta testing warning banner for now. I will have a think about how I can make this work. If anyone has any suggestions on what I could do to make it work let me know.
As per my PM, start by reading all the decisions on the "adjudications - notable cases" tab of the PCN spreadsheet that have been promulgated in the last six months or so, and try and build all those scenarios into the tool.

Also you might have to have a look at how the NIP wizard used to work on pepipoo, you'll have to trawl through the web archive though as it's been offline for some time now.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order