Author Topic: A whole new world of council fighting has appeared  (Read 535 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

coffee pot

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
A whole new world of council fighting has appeared
« on: February 14, 2025, 04:32:56 pm »
An 80-year-old grandad was left shocked after he was handed a £80 fine for going on a 10-yard walk with his dog without a poo bag.

https://metro.co.uk/2025/02/13/granddad-fined-80-not-poo-bag-10-second-dog-walk-22552010/

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


666

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 349
  • Karma: +11/-8
    • View Profile
Re: A whole new world of council fighting has appeared
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2025, 05:30:50 pm »
An 80-year-old grandad was left shocked after he was handed a £80 fine for going on a 10-yard walk with his dog without a poo bag.

https://metro.co.uk/2025/02/13/granddad-fined-80-not-poo-bag-10-second-dog-walk-22552010/
That seems entirely reasonable.

One of the many ways that life has improved over my recent decades has been the elimination of dogsh1t on the pavements and other public places.

andy_foster

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 949
  • Karma: +19/-20
  • Location: Reading
    • View Profile
Re: A whole new world of council fighting has appeared
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2025, 07:09:00 pm »
How much was he fined for punching them in the face?
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.
Love Love x 1 View List

coffee pot

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: A whole new world of council fighting has appeared
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2025, 07:17:06 pm »
I agree that poo is to be picked up and we always pick up (unless it's low tide). However, I have never heard that it is an offence to be near your dog (how did they prove ownership? He might be walking the dog, but is he the registered keeper?) without a plastic bag about your person.

666

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 349
  • Karma: +11/-8
    • View Profile
Re: A whole new world of council fighting has appeared
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2025, 07:01:38 am »
I agree that poo is to be picked up and we always pick up (unless it's low tide). However, I have never heard that it is an offence to be near your dog (how did they prove ownership? He might be walking the dog, but is he the registered keeper?) without a plastic bag about your person.
The report says that the Public Spaces Protection Order applies to a "person in charge of a dog", not its owner.

coffee pot

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: A whole new world of council fighting has appeared
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2025, 11:02:18 am »
https://wolverhampton.moderngov.co.uk/documents/s241418/Public%20Spaces%20Protection%20Order%202023%20-%20Dog%20Control.pdf
The relevant section

4.6 As part of the consultation exercise into renewal and variation of the PSPO, consultation
was undertaken regarding a new requirement for a person in charge of a dog on public
land to be able to produce on the request of an authorised officer suitable and unused
means of removing dog faeces from the ground. Anyone who fails to comply with this
requirement shall be guilty of an offence if they are unable to produce suitable and
unused means of removing dog faeces from the ground when asked to do so by an
authorised officer. The receptacle / bags must be disposable, and this requirement is
unaffected by whether the dog has recently defecated. Exceptions to this proposal are:
i That person has a reasonable excuse for failing to do so; or
ii The owner/occupier or other person or authority having control of the land has
consented (generally or specifically) to that person failing to do so.

I would have thought that, "my car is 10 yards away and I have one or more there" is a perfectly valid response.  It doesn't say it has to be produced from anywhere in particular.

Southpaw82

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 785
  • Karma: +11/-2
    • View Profile
Re: A whole new world of council fighting has appeared
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2025, 11:50:44 am »
So it imposes liability for not having a poo bag because your dog might have a poo and you might not pick it up?

Are council goons wandering around demanding papers poo bags please?

coffee pot

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: A whole new world of council fighting has appeared
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2025, 12:11:10 pm »
If you look at the Metro story that appears to be precisely their position and actions. Bearing in mind it is a story as reported in the Press, and anyone who has been involved in anything that appears in the Press knows their fact checking is sometimes less than perfect, it does seem likely. The council also wave the old toxocara canis shroud despite their being very little evidence that this very rare disease in humans is caused by companion dogs. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2667114X24000116 for the really interested.

nigelbb

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: A whole new world of council fighting has appeared
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2025, 09:33:36 am »
Surely having the bags in the car a few yards away satisfies the requirement to be able to " produce suitable and unused means of removing dog faeces from the ground when asked to do so"? The dog owner isn't required to actually carry them on their person. Alternatively a handkerchief would also satisfy the requirement.

BertB

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: A whole new world of council fighting has appeared
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2025, 10:22:50 am »
I've been out with the dogs before and they have been so crap happy, they have gone through the 5 or 6 poo bags I took out with me. So this council is proposing to fine me if they catch me heading back home sans poo bags, but with two completely pooed out dogs?

Edit to add. It is however in my humble reserved opinion that for people who let their dogs poo in the street and fail to pick it up, you should be legally allowed to stab them in the face.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2025, 10:27:09 am by BertB »

Southpaw82

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 785
  • Karma: +11/-2
    • View Profile
Re: A whole new world of council fighting has appeared
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2025, 02:31:26 pm »
So it’s not just not having poo bags, it’s not being able to produce them on demand? That really is some “turn out your pockets” type legislation. I’m not convinced it is intra vires.

andy_foster

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 949
  • Karma: +19/-20
  • Location: Reading
    • View Profile
Re: A whole new world of council fighting has appeared
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2025, 02:52:55 pm »
I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous question.
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

The Slithy Tove

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: A whole new world of council fighting has appeared
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2025, 08:13:59 am »
I've often wondered about these various tickets that council officials can dish out. They have no means to force anyone to provide their identity (unlike the police), so couldn't you just walk off, or get back in the car and drive off? How much effort are they going to go to to identify the culprit? Even driving off, they don't have the S.172 means of identifying the driver. We've seen this when they send threatening letters to Registered Keepers whose car has been the source of litter thrown from it.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2025, 08:15:32 am by The Slithy Tove »

BertB

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: A whole new world of council fighting has appeared
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2025, 12:12:12 pm »
I've never been approached by council officers for any reason, but I have often wondered what their response would/can be to 'shove it up your arse mate' when asked for my details?
Agree Agree x 1 View List

DrSatan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: A whole new world of council fighting has appeared
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2025, 03:41:32 pm »
The PSPO in this case does cover this later:
"Failure to give correct details

If an authorised officer proposes to give a person a fixed penalty notice under any part of the PSPO, the officer may require the person to give him his name and address.

A person commits an offence if:

(a) they fail to give his name and address when required to do so

(b) they give a false or inaccurate name or address in response to a requirement under the proceeding subsection."

It is silent on whether or not there is any power of detention until the cops arrive.