Author Topic: Untruthful police report  (Read 216 times)

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Untruthful police report
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Hi there, just wanting a bit of advice how to proceed with a situation I have found myself in.

I passed a police officer on a roundabout by changing to the center lane and then returning to the outside lane to exit by the second exit, straight on. They were in a queue of traffic on the roundabout turning left which was only just starting to move. The roundabout has two lanes but only one lane for the exit. I believed they were turning left due to their positioning but they left via the same exit as me and pulled me over.

The officer alleged that I cut them up and did me for inconsiderate driving. I asked to see their dash camera as I was certain that I hadn't done so but was told there is no camera and that it would be my word against two police officers.

I luckily managed to obtained footage of the alleged offence from a shop's CCTV which shows that I started to change back into the outside lane a couple car lengths ahead of them when they were travelling at about walking pace - it is clear from the footage that no-one had to alter speed or direction because of me.

Upon recieving a course offer I asked for them to clarify the alligations and then challenged the inaccurate statement of the officer evidencing this with the footage. They have not yet replied to this but have withdrawn the course offer and issued a FPN (offence code RT88576).

I am quite stressed at the situation, I feel I have been treated unfairly and would be very grateful for some advice, particularly on the following:

1. Having a court hearing would be both inconvenient (I live about 2 hours away from the issuing authority) and intimidaing for me. Is there any way I could contest this without having one and if I do have one can I be reimbursed for costs?
2. I can't really afford legal representation but also probably don't qualify for free help. I feel the evidence for my case is strong so would representing myself likely be appropriate in this case?
3. The offence I have been accused of is for inconsiderate driving ("without reasonable consideration..."), is it true that to be found guilty they would need to prove that I caused someone to be inconveninced; would this mean that I would have had to cause someone to brake / change direction? (this is probably the most obvious thing to argue)

Best wishes,

S
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:17:27 am by onlyme »

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Re: Untruthful police report
« Reply #1 on: »
...and issued a FPN (offence code RT88576).

I'm going to go ahead and call bullsh*t on that.

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1. Having a court hearing would be both inconvenient (I live about 2 hours away from the issuing authority) and intimidaing for me. Is there any way I could contest this without having one and if I do have one can I be reimbursed for costs?

You have already tried to contest this informally. If, as you claim, you have been issued with an FPN, you have 21 days to either pay the fixed penalty or request a court hearing. However, as indicated above, you haven't.

If the police instigate court proceedings, you can either plead guilty or not guilty. Assuming that the police's evidence is sufficient to convict if not challenged, pleading not guilty would be somewhat futile unless you are going to present a defence in court.

If you win, you can claim your necessarily incurred costs.

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2. I can't really afford legal representation but also probably don't qualify for free help. I feel the evidence for my case is strong so would representing myself likely be appropriate in this case?

If you can't afford a lawyer, representing yourself would seem to be the only option.

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3. The offence I have been accused of is for inconsiderate driving ("without reasonable consideration..."), is it true that to be found guilty they would need to prove that I caused someone to be inconveninced; would this mean that I would have had to cause someone to brake / change direction? (this is probably the most obvious thing to argue)

Pretty much

Best wishes,

S
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I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

Re: Untruthful police report
« Reply #2 on: »
Thank you for this Andy,

I'm going got mull it over a bit but will likely request the court hearing to sort this out.

What in particular are you are calling bullsh*t on? I am interested to know what you find suprising about this. I do rekon the FPN has been issued because the offer for the course has expired, but the police department has been extremely unhelpful in communicating with me and seem unwilling to review the case with the evidence I provided - I have given them many weeks so plenty of time to do so.

Thank you again and best wishes,

S

Re: Untruthful police report
« Reply #3 on: »
One of the reasons why Andy may be a little sceptical is because the offence does not attract a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN). If the police think a fixed penalty is appropriate they will make a “Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty" (COFP). This is not semantics. Both exist but the two are completely different animals.

If you have not received a COFP yet I think it is more likely that the police will move straight to court proceedings, especially as you mention it is now “many weeks” since the date of the offence. You have also declined to take up the offer of a course and have given them indications that you refute the allegation.

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…the police department has been extremely unhelpful in communicating with me and seem unwilling to review the case with the evidence I provided…
The police do not usually review evidence when they have made either a course or fixed penalty offer. They have already made the decision that they will take enforcement action. The idea of both of those is that the driver accepts the allegation as it stands and opts to take up the offer – which is considerably less expensive than any penalty a court may impose. So it’s unsurprising that they have failed to engage with you. The police leave any evidence of a defence to be tested in court.

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….but will likely request the court hearing to sort this out.

The court hearing (or perhaps two) will indeed “sort this out”. But it will take the form of a trial, The police will present their evidence (which you will be provided with before you enter your plea) and you can present yours. The police evidence will probably consist of statements from the officers. If you disagree with their contents, you must ask for the officers to attend court and you will be able to cross-examine them. The court will then reach a verdict.

Before the trial you will be asked to state the reason why you are pleading not guilty and there may be an opportunity then to get he prosecutor to view your evidence, review the decision to prosecute and perhaps discontinue.

But if that does not happen you should be under no illusion – if this goes to court, unless you plead guilty, the only way it will be resolved is by way of a criminal trial. You should also be aware of the likely outcome should you be convicted. You will face a fine of at least half a week’s net income and a surcharge of 40% of that fine. You will also be ordered to pay prosecution costs of around £650. So, no change out of £1,000 for most people and possibly more, depending on your income. You will also see an endorsement and at least three points imposed on your driving record.

What was the date of the alleged offence?
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:31:54 am by NewJudge »

Re: Untruthful police report
« Reply #4 on: »
I’m still unclear as to what part of the police evidence is “untruthful” (i.e. a deliberate lie) and how the OP knows this.
I am not qualified to give legal advice in the UK. While I will do my best to help you, you should not rely on my advice as if it was given by a lawyer qualified in the UK.

Re: Untruthful police report
« Reply #5 on: »
I’m still unclear as to what part of the police evidence is “untruthful” (i.e. a deliberate lie) and how the OP knows this.
The officers said I 'cut them up' which is open to some interpretation, but combined with the offence code, suggests to me that they mean that I caused them to brake or otherwise take evasive action which the video evidence I later obtained clearly shows did not happen.

I suppose you are right. Both officers may have not remembered the situation correctly and been genuine, but we would hope that they would be more certain before bringing allegations.

Re: Untruthful police report
« Reply #6 on: »
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...but we would hope that they would be more certain before bringing allegations
.
But they might indeed be "more certain" than you think.

What SP is raising is that if you approach your defence on the basis that the officers are "untruthful" (i.e. telling lies) you may encounter some difficulty. Instead you should suggest they are mistaken.

This is a very subjective allegation and the prosecution must prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that inconvenience was caused:

"A person is to be regarded as driving without reasonable consideration for other persons only if those persons are inconvenienced by his driving."

At this stage you do not know what the officers are alleging regarding the inconvenience they say they suffered. Before you make your decision, I would wait until you see their statements.

Once again, what was the date of the offence. It may help determine whether or not the police are likely to offer you a fixed penalty.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 07:05:00 pm by NewJudge »

Re: Untruthful police report
« Reply #7 on: »
As the OP has apparently been issued a Fixed Penalty Notice, the question as to whether or not they are likely to offer a fixed penalty would appear to be somewhat moot.
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

Re: Untruthful police report
« Reply #8 on: »
Thank you for the information NewJudge, that is really helpful and quite intimidating, but I am grateful for your insights.

Yes, I think you are right about Andy's scheptism: I did confuse the FPN and COFP letters - it is the COFP which I have recieved and I have until early June to respond. The date of alleged offence was back in January.

It feels very stupid that there is no way of having them review allegations with new evidence prior to legal action. It would avoid soo much unneccessary cost and stress.

Thank you for your advice regarding the 'untruthful' part of it. I do understand there is weighting behind this and will be wary going forwards.