3. Vigilante NIP
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Vigilante NIP
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Evening all,

A vigilante cyclist with a GoPro on his helmet was paying extra attention to me whilst stationary at traffic lights on the 3rd May.

I have received a NIP dated 31st May - use of mobile device whilst driving.

My car is on hire lease so I am not the owner but I am the registered keeper. I haven’t had correspondence from the hire company like I do with PCNs this has come directly to me.

As it’s out of the 14 day period to serve NIP will this stand?

What do I do after naming myself the driver?
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Re: Vigilante NIP
« Reply #1 on: »
No NIP is needed for a mobile phone offence, so the time it takes to serve is irrelevant.

Also if it’s leased it’s very unlikely you are the registered keeper, get out the V5c registration document and check, not that it matters.

After confirming you are the driver you will probably be offered the fixed penalty of 6points and £200, if the matter goes to court the points will still be 6 but the fine will be means tested and you will have the 40% surcharge and prosecution costs on top.

If you needed a witness to help you I doubt you would call them a vigilante?

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Re: Vigilante NIP
« Reply #2 on: »
Quote from: The Rookie on June 06, 2024, 07:41:04 pm
If you needed a witness to help you I doubt you would call them a vigilante?

Don’t try and start an argument in an advice thread (or any thread for that matter).
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Re: Vigilante NIP
« Reply #3 on: »
Does anybody have any idea if the police will send evidence or how to go about it? To help confirm the driver..

Also is there a way of working out prosecution costs I would be expected to pay going to court?
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Re: Vigilante NIP
« Reply #4 on: »
If you ask them nicely for photos to help id the driver (don't use the word evidence) they might provide something they may not be the complete material. They are not obliged to though. The time to respond does not stop whilst waiting any response

If you opt for court any fixed penalty offer is gone.

Indicate a not guilty plea and the evidence they intend to rely on can be obtained. This may encourage you to change plea to guilty.

Costs for an initial guilty plea are around £100. A late guilty plea £400. A not guilty plea around £660 if convicted.

The definition of a device is fairly wide, as is what constitutes use.

Do you believe you have a defence (eg fiddling with something, or it was a device but you weren't holding it) or are you just hoping they might not be able to prove it.

« Last Edit: June 07, 2024, 02:44:57 am by slapdash »
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Re: Vigilante NIP
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: slapdash on June 07, 2024, 02:17:48 am
If you ask them nicely for photos to help id the driver (don't use the word evidence) they might provide something they may not be the complete material. They are not obliged to though. The time to respond does not stop whilst waiting any response

If you opt for court any fixed penalty offer is gone.

Indicate a not guilty plea and the evidence they intend to rely on can be obtained. This may encourage you to change plea to guilty.

Costs for an initial guilty plea are around £100. A late guilty plea £400. A not guilty plea around £660 if convicted.

The definition of a device is fairly wide, as is what constitutes use.

Do you believe you have a defence (eg fiddling with something, or it was a device but you weren't holding it) or are you just hoping they might not be able to prove it.

The issue is I don’t use my phone whilst driving - I have Apple car play with sat nav etc so there is no need to. I genuinely can’t remember if I touched my phone at the time and I definitely wouldn’t have had it to my ear etc but it does sit in the centre console.

I understand if I’ve touched it I would be found to be guilty.

My thinking is to plea not guilty to see the evidence and hope that the cyclist doesn’t show to give evidence. The gamble of £600 maximum would pay for itself over 5 years of increased car insurance..
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Re: Vigilante NIP
« Reply #6 on: »
The cyclist may have provided a video, there may be a witness statement. After disclosure this will govern your approach.

Good luck.

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Re: Vigilante NIP
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: Jprest on June 07, 2024, 08:43:59 am
The issue is I don’t use my phone whilst driving - I have Apple car play with sat nav etc so there is no need to.

I understand if I’ve touched it I would be found to be guilty.
As long as you understand that most courts accept that driving includes sitting at traffic lights/in queues etc, I add this as it seems a common misunderstanding (or at least that's what those caught say!).

It requires you to HOLD it, and USE it whilst DRIVING, any one of those three missing and it's not an offence. merely touching it is not an offence (though can make explaining the defence harder).

The police will not normally progress a complaint from a member of the public without a video of it which they will have reviewed, so it will show 'something'.
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Re: Vigilante NIP
« Reply #8 on: »
Your gamble will be more than the 650.

You are likely to be discarding a 200 offer in exchange for half a weeks net wages (max 1000) + 40%.

A relative is in the early stages of a similar issue. In their case I believe it was an AI camera. They have a screen mount. They are "certain" it never left the mount and will be pleading not guilty.

There is always the possibility of things being dropped on a human review.

Good luck.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2024, 09:58:13 am by slapdash »
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Re: Vigilante NIP
« Reply #9 on: »
I have asked for images to help ID the driver.

Is the only way for me to view disclosure to go to court - if it’s conclusive then change plead to guilty?

It’s a gamble I’ll have to consider but I honestly don’t remember using my phone and it’s not something I do.

Thanks for all your responses
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Re: Vigilante NIP
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: Jprest on June 07, 2024, 11:13:30 am
Is the only way for me to view disclosure to go to court - if it’s conclusive then change plead to guilty?

It's the only way you have an entitlement. The asking nicely approach often yields stills, and sometimes if it's "operation snap" the video.

As was mentioned the likely underlying video probably shows "something". But if/when you get it, or stills from it showing them will get views. It's down to them to prove of course.
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