Author Topic: SJPN to be received  (Read 1854 times)

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Sandy217

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Re: SJPN to be received
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2024, 04:49:36 pm »
Thank you, thatís my concern :(

NewJudge

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Re: SJPN to be received
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2024, 08:44:28 am »
There is nothing to stop the police offering you a fixed penalty (and nothing to stop you accepting it) beyond six months. But there is something to stop them taking court action beyond that time.

Irksome

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Re: SJPN to be received
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2024, 01:52:38 pm »
This all seems very phishy?  What force is involved?

Sandy217

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SJPN now received
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2024, 03:12:14 am »
Update - it was the Met Police.

And I have  received the SJPN, dated before the expiry of the 28 days of the second COFP.

Police have stated the second COFP was sent to me for administrative reasons - to allow me to make payment for the Fixed penalty and I should have given my licence details weeks ago to them, as requested via email.

The SJPN was dated about 5 months and 28 days post the date of the offence.

The court responded to an email I sent last week & advised me to the original COFP was cancelled but have now informed me, they have contacted the MET police (as they donít want to give me incorrect information)Ö

Not sure how to proceed now as i know need to submit my plea.

The Rookie

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Re: SJPN now received
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2024, 09:46:49 am »
The SJPN was dated about 5 months and 28 days post the date of the offence.
Does this pre-date or post-date the written charge attached to the SJPN?
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NewJudge

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Re: SJPN now received
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2024, 10:15:15 am »
Does this pre-date or post-date the written charge attached to the SJPN?
The two are supposed to be issued "at the same time".

I think the more important issue is the status of the Conditional Offer and that of raising court proceedings. The law says that no proceedings can be taken until the end of the suspended enforcement period. He has an offer which has not yet expired and for which court proceedings have been taken. It's not clear to me what this means:

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Police have stated the second COFP was sent to me for administrative reasons - to allow me to make payment for the Fixed penalty...

andy_foster

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Re: SJPN to be received
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2024, 10:42:42 am »
The police appear to be saying that the second COFP doesn't count as they had their fingers crossed behind their back when they issued it.
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The Rookie

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Re: SJPN now received
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2024, 10:58:02 am »
Does this pre-date or post-date the written charge attached to the SJPN?
The two are supposed to be issued "at the same time".
Sorry I meant the CoFP (doh).

Was the SJPN/written charge written after the CoFP?
There are motorists who have been scammed and those who are yet to be scammed!

NewJudge

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Re: SJPN now received
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2024, 01:39:14 pm »
Sorry I meant the CoFP (doh).

Was the SJPN/written charge written after the CoFP?
Ah right.

I think the issue really is, as Andy suggests, do the police think this latest COFP means they can still go ahead and issue proceedings whilst it remains "live".

Iíve read back through this post to remind myself exactly what has happened.

It seems the OP was issued with a COFP, accepted it by paying he penalty and submitting his DL details, but the details either didnít arrive or were not acted upon. Meanwhile the police returned his £100 and told him he would be prosecuted.

Since then he has received a second COFP and the 28 days he has to respond to that do not elapse until about 6months and two weeks after the offence. Just for good measure, the police have now raised a SJPN, two days before the six month deadline.

I cannot understand why the police have done this. It may be for ďadministrative reasonsĒ but the fact remains that he has a COFP and whilst its ďsuspended enforcement periodĒ had not elapsed, they raised an SJPN. It seems they have taken court proceedings speculatively and my understanding they are not permitted to do that. Section 79 of the Road Traffic Offenders' Act:

78 General restriction on proceedings.

(1)Proceedings shall not be brought against any person for the offence to which a fixed penalty notice relates until the end of the suspended enforcement period.

(2)Proceedings shall not be brought against any person for the offence to which a fixed penalty notice relates if the fixed penalty is paid in accordance with this Part of this Act before the end of the suspended enforcement period.


However, I note the OP says this:

Quote
if thereís a slight risk of being in front of a magistrates, Iíd rather not take it.
There is now a live SJPN which must be responded to so effectively he is already "in front of a magistrate". I think his decision is whether he wants to plead not guilty in response to that SJPN on the basis of RTOA s79(1) or pay the penalty and take advantage of s79(2).
« Last Edit: July 08, 2024, 01:42:49 pm by NewJudge »
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ManxTom

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Re: SJPN to be received
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2024, 01:51:28 pm »
Very little of this thread makes any sense at all.

First of all the OP sent off their reply naming the driver the day before the 28 days expired...

Then they got a reply from HMCTS confirming that they'd named the driver out of time and would be receiving a SJPN...

The OP then mentions something about the police having made an error and giving him an extension to the deadline over the phone...

Then the OP tells us that he's contacted the police and they appear to have told him that they had received his details in time after all and that they would issue a second COFP that would reset the whole process...

The OP resceives a second COFP...

Finally the OP receives a SJPN and an explanation that the second COFP had no significance other than that it had been sent for administrative reasons to allow him to pay the COFP out of time - which he hasn't done(?).

I wonder if the OP has completely misunderstood or otherwise misinterpreted the conversation they had with the police when they were told that a second CFP would be issued?  I'd have to say that for a solicitor the OP is not very good at clearly recounting detail.



The Rookie

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Re: SJPN to be received
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2024, 03:10:34 pm »
Finally the OP receives a SJPN and an explanation that the second COFP had no significance other than that it had been sent for administrative reasons to allow him to pay the COFP out of time
If what was sent was a CoFP, then it's not just 'for administrative reasons' it IS a CoFP and has a suspended enforcement period associated with it, that is significant.
There are motorists who have been scammed and those who are yet to be scammed!
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Sandy217

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Re: SJPN to be received
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2024, 09:07:29 pm »
This is exactly what has happened.

Thank you for your time and kind assistance.

Sandy217

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Re: SJPN to be received
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2024, 09:10:33 pm »
@ManxTom it doesnít seem to be clear as the policeís actions / information provided by them have been contradictory and Iíve received contradictory information throughout by them.
The summary above is correct.
Thanks for your reply.

Sandy217

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Re: SJPN received
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2024, 11:30:50 pm »
Charge date - 27 June 24
Date of offence - 1 Jan 24
Second COFP dated 10 June 24 (made payment of £100, not sent licence details)

Emails from Regional Fixed Penalty Office for the South and London | HMCTS - advising COFP (original) was cancelled. They emailed Met last police last week asking for clarification in light of SJPN. Also informed me I have until 17th (?) to accept second COFP.

I await a response.

Iím shattered & up at 6am, please excuse me for not sending full chronology etc any typos etc.

Thanks again all for your valuable assistance.

andy_foster

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Re: SJPN to be received
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2024, 12:21:13 am »
For the sake of completeness, the suspended enforcement period for a COFP is 28 days (or such longer period as may be specified on the notice) from date of issue.

There appears to be a question mark over whether or not proceedings were statute barred in relation to compliance with the first COFP (if you provided the required identification details to the relevant person). The fact that a second COFP was issued too late to lawfully instigate proceedings suggests that they dropped the ball as regards the first COFP and know that they dropped the ball. Whether you can prove this is another matter, but essentially irrelevant.

There is no such thing in law as an administratively issued COFP. A COFP issued for the purposes of enabling points to be endorsed on your licence is a COFP.

For the sake of sanity, check your COFP against the stipulations in section 75 Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 (and have a read of Part III in general).
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.
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