Author Topic: SJPN - No insurance 6 points will lose licence (special reasons case)  (Read 713 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Southpaw82

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 345
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
What special reason is there?

Insurance purchased @ 12:08pm which was meant to begin immediately at the next interval (every 15mins on the hour) so at 12:15pm I would of been insured however it seems like my partner selected 12:30pm in error.

I was driving clearly with insurance purchased before I was stopped by police - and I was fully under the impression I was insured at the time.

It doesn’t seem like you have much choice but to run the argument. Good luck.

slapdash

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Insurance purchased @ 12:08pm which was meant to begin immediately at the next interval (every 15mins on the hour) so at 12:15pm I would of been insured however it seems like my partner selected 12:30pm in error.

I am not sure what you mean by "meant to begin" in assocation with the start time, but there is a potential issue in this area.

There is presumably some widget in the UI which is some sort of clock defining the start time to a 15 minute granularity.

Is it pre populated in any way or do you have to select it.? You should be able to figure this out with a few tests. (If it were my design it would most likely to always force a use selection for a number of reasons).

There is also a further consideration. By the time the various operations have been completed (some of which involve indeterminate waits for user input and external 3rd party systems) is this time still valid? If not what does it do ?

You should be able to ascertain this to an extent with personality testing.

It is far from impossible that a system proposes 12:15 and subsequently changes that to the next 12:30 point because 12:15 had already passed by the time the payment was confirmed by an external processor.

A GDPR request for all the logs and times both to the insurer and to the provider of the payment method may provide some useful information.

Analysing and utilising it would be a different thing of course.

A scenario to try and figure is:-

Start applying at 12:08, set time to 12:15, submit for payment before 12:15, complete payment after 12:15. There are a variety of scenarios that would be worthwhile to ascertain the what the result is. The 3 anticipated outcomes would be refusal and refund. Start at 12:15 even though that predates completion. Start at 12:30, either with notification of change or without.

sparxy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 82
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • [ib90xi8p]
    • View Profile
Slightly veering off topic, but a well known temporary insurer allows you to select the start "Immediately" or to select a start date and time. It states that if you buy the policy after the start time selected, it'll start a few minutes later.

If OPs other half used this website then presumably they selected the advanced start time, otherwise it'd have been a few minutes after purchase (12:08).

Quote
Please make sure you buy your policy before the start time you select. If you buy your policy after that time, your policy will begin a few minutes later. You will see the exact start and end date/time on screen and in your documents after you buy your policy.

Southpaw82

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 345
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
How obvious was the start time? If it was there to be seen and nobody checked the court is less likely to by sympathetic.

joefroggs

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Quote
Okay makes sense to me, in terms of handing documentation such as insurance policy / email copies to the bench how does one go about this? just print and hand over or is there something more official.

Just take copies. Five if you can - one for each of the three magistrates, one for the court's legal advisor and one for the prosecutor.

Quote
Seems like based on your understandings its a case by case situation that's purely subjective based on the bench on the day.
Yes it is. You could present an identical argument to two benches; one might find in your favour, the other against you.

Quote
In terms of how I approach this case would I begin my case as accepting guilt then asking for a SR hearing ? and when this begins I request that the 6 points are withheld in my case due to XYZ.

Yes. See my earlier post. You must request your hearing when you respond to the SJPN.

Okay I will follow your earlier post ... assuming I don't need to add any details on the optional text box to explain why I want a hearing?

joefroggs

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
One additional question - once a sjpn is served im assuming there is zero chance for this to time out or not be seen in court? once I reply

Southpaw82

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 345
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
One additional question - once a sjpn is served im assuming there is zero chance for this to time out or not be seen in court? once I reply

There’s now no time limit.

joefroggs

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Just an update : i used the new online system (online plea service), and submitted guilty with a request to attend hearing.

However i was reading my case and police statement : he essentially stated he stopped me at 12:15 and he saw myself / my partner on the temp insurance website attempting to purchase coverage, around 20 mins later i showed him a temporary insurance from with the time 12:30.

I was reading a range of cases on various lawyers websites with cases similar to mine or even weaker getting SR cases accepted however with a statement like that from the police officer it has really dampened my possible chances. I guess i have the proof i purchased before the stop (I also have my partners bank statement) which has the transaction being @ 12:08. But with most things in court the sworn officers word overrules?

Southpaw82

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 345
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
It’s generally very difficult for witness testimony to prevail over documentary evidence.

andy_foster

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 392
  • Karma: +6/-3
  • Location: Reading
    • View Profile
If you want to challenge the veracity of the occifer's statement, you need to require his attendance. There is presumably a notice in the bundle entitled "Notice to Defendant - Proof by Written Statement" (or somesuch).
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

roythebus

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 81
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Restoring old buses since 1969.
  • Location: Somewhere in South East England
    • View Profile
Was this transaction made online or by phone to a call centre? If the latter how long was the caller on the phone listening to Vivaldi's "Four Seasons" before the call was answered?
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

joefroggs

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Was this transaction made online or by phone to a call centre? If the latter how long was the caller on the phone listening to Vivaldi's "Four Seasons" before the call was answered?

Online, payment taken at 12:08

ManxTom

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Just an update : i used the new online system (online plea service), and submitted guilty with a request to attend hearing.

However i was reading my case and police statement : he essentially stated he stopped me at 12:15 and he saw myself / my partner on the temp insurance website attempting to purchase coverage, around 20 mins later i showed him a temporary insurance from with the time 12:30...

How could he possibly know what website you were looking at and that you were buying insurance?  Was he looking over your shoulder(s)?

joefroggs

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Just an update : i used the new online system (online plea service), and submitted guilty with a request to attend hearing.

However i was reading my case and police statement : he essentially stated he stopped me at 12:15 and he saw myself / my partner on the temp insurance website attempting to purchase coverage, around 20 mins later i showed him a temporary insurance from with the time 12:30...

How could he possibly know what website you were looking at and that you were buying insurance?  Was he looking over your shoulder(s)?

I was standing outside the vehicle next to him, when he first pulled me over he saw my partner in the passenger seat on the email attempting to pull the temp insurance cert. Instantly he took me out the car and said my partner was purchasing insurance and I said no she’s trying to get the certificate, I was then standing in front of him with my phone awaiting for my partner to send me the certificate and all the second I showed him certificate he said I purchased it after the fact, I then said we can call and confirm with the company and he refused let me drive off and charged me