3. New driver - 2 FPN’s on same journey
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Re: New driver - 2 FPN’s on same journey
« Reply #15 on: »
Sadly not.  I didn’t know anything about the 14 day rule at the time and we actually apologised when returning the NIP’s, saying that we’d only received them that day so were replying at the earliest opportunity.

I posted them back on the same day as I was worried about them already being 16 days old, at that point, and didn’t want them to think we’d been dragging our feet.

I know I’m completely clueless but I’ve held my licence for over 30 years and have no points so it’s all very alien to me.
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Re: New driver - 2 FPN’s on same journey
« Reply #16 on: »
Incidentally, I have spoken to the postman who said they were overwhelmed before Christmas at their sorting office.  I have searched online and there was an article in The Daily Mail saying Royal Mail was in chaos.  This is dated 14/12/24 which would be within the timescales of the NIP’s being sent.
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Re: New driver - 2 FPN’s on same journey
« Reply #17 on: »
Very strange that a course wasn't offered either for one of the offences ...

You can attempt to prove the late delivery, your statement (or that of your Son as well as your statement) is evidence to the late delivery, but probably not sufficient ... however if you can get your Post(wo)man to testify as to what date(s) they delivered post to you then you are starting to swing the burden of proof your way?
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Re: New driver - 2 FPN’s on same journey
« Reply #18 on: »
I don't think that it is clear what point is trying to be made here.  That the NIP's were served out of time and therefore invalid?

That is a difficult defence at the best of times.  When these things are challenged, courts are presented with comprehensive evidence of the administrative systems used to handle these documents. If you had a statement from the Manager of your local delivery office categorically stating that no post was delivered during say a two week period due to staff shortages then it would be worth giving it a try but short of that or something similar, you will be very much fighting an uphill battle regarding NIP invalidity.

At the end of the day, your statement :


Quote from: Rlcjael on January 18, 2025, 07:02:46 pm

He received 2 NIPS followed by 2 FPN’s.


...seems pretty ordinary and straightforward.
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Re: New driver - 2 FPN’s on same journey
« Reply #19 on: »
Quote from: Freecall on January 20, 2025, 09:54:07 am
I don't think that it is clear what point is trying to be made here.  That the NIP's were served out of time and therefore invalid?

I think it’s pretty clear (to anyone who knows the law) that that is a possibility.

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That is a difficult defence at the best of times.  When these things are challenged, courts are presented with comprehensive evidence of the administrative systems used to handle these documents. If you had a statement from the Manager of your local delivery office categorically stating that no post was delivered during say a two week period due to staff shortages then it would be worth giving it a try but short of that or something similar, you will be very much fighting an uphill battle regarding NIP invalidity.

I don’t think anyone can be so categoric as to what evidence is required.

The defendant has to show that it was more likely than not that the NIP(s) arrived late. How they do that is a matter for them and depends on the evidence available. At the moment we have, it seems, mum and son who can give evidence as to their arrival. The court might believe them or it might not but it is difficult to see why the court would decide that both have conspired to commit perjury.

Quote
At the end of the day, your statement :


Quote from: Rlcjael on January 18, 2025, 07:02:46 pm

He received 2 NIPS followed by 2 FPN’s.


...seems pretty ordinary and straightforward.

Straightforward but irrelevant to the NIP issue.
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I am not qualified to give legal advice in the UK. While I will do my best to help you, you should not rely on my advice as if it was given by a lawyer qualified in the UK.
Re: New driver - 2 FPN’s on same journey
« Reply #20 on: »
not forgetting the article about the problems Royal Mail were experiencing.
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Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man
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  3. New driver - 2 FPN’s on same journey