Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hi All,
Please could I have some advice regards failing to comply with a red light.
Our defence is that the red light we passed shared its pole with another traffic light for two right turning lanes which was showing green. The traffic light pole was damaged in that it had rotated 30 or 40 degrees clockwise (looking from above).
This meant that we couldn't see the red light, just a green light on our side of the 3 lane road.

Is this a valid excuse? Annoyingly the Police photo cuts off right at the edge of the second set of lights but it does show the red light is not facing approching traffic.

I'll insert the police picture below and attach a google streetview from last year showing the scene. We're in the grey Mini going over the line. You can just see the twisted traffic light to our right.

Just got the letter today so we'll start with declaring the driver but wondered if it's then worth appealing this or if it's better to just pay up and hope for a safety course? It says we were 3.6 seconds into red if that matters?

Thanks very much. 



https://i.postimg.cc/1RDBHprW/Google-Streetview.png

Sorry, I didn't realise that I could do Streetview links.
In this you can see the two traffic lights on the one pole and how when the pole is rotated to the position shown in the Police photo it would show the other traffic light to approaching traffic (which was green).

The fact that the polices own photo shows the traffic light is pointing the wrong way must help doesn't it? Add to that one 6 inches to it's side (and pointing at me) was showing green compounds the error.




My previous issues on here and Pepipoo have been more about private parking issues so I slipped into using "we" from the old advice about not identifying the driver so apologies for that.

I'll go back over there tomorrow and get some pictures. Hopefully it's not been fixed yet. Does anyone know how you go about contacting the council about traffic light issues? This is all sounding quite serious so I need to get prepared.

Sorry, yes, One lane turning right.
Yes the pole was twisted so I could see the green light for turning right. It was a full green, not one with a illuminated green arrow. My red light is shown in the police picture pointing more towards any pedestrians waiting to cross from the left.
That combined with the busy traffic and the bend in the road caused me to misread the situation.

I put the Police photo in my first post but maybe it's not showing up? I'm not great with tech.
Here's the link https://i.postimg.cc/1RFCdxsq/Red-light-photo.jpg


And I'll try inserting it here.

Ah, I see... The mini?

The only downside I can see is the green you saw had a right turn only sign underneath.  (And that the lights on the left and centre were red)

It’s very hard to say how a court might view this.

Indeed, there are no guarantees...

Worth delaying the driver nomination slightly (do not miss the 28 days) to give some time to get photos and query the council.

Then worth presenting any findings to the Police but they may not engage short of going to court.

Well I went back today and the luckily for me light is still bent.
I was mistaken on the right turn light, it does show a green arrow but in my defence the straight on red light is not visible at all and at 30 - 40mph in traffic I just registered the green light pointing at me.

A side observation is that the straight ahead and right turn lights show green together and then the straight ahead light turns red followed by the right turn light going red about 4 seconds later. This means we hit the junction just at the wrong moment in the sequence to see a red light on our side of the road.

Is the light being twisted a valid or potentially succesful defence or should I plead guilty?

I'll insert two pictures I took today below. Please let me know if you can't see them.

I see pictures

I would say that puts a different complexion on the issue and I agree with the above.

The court may consider that you had two red lights showing clearly and a green arrow allowing you to turn right only (with a mandatory "turn right" sign beneath it).

I was uncertain of your chances of success before you provided that latest picture. Now I am far less certain. In fact, I would say it is more likely than not that you would be convicted.

One thing which may sway your decision is this:

If you are offered a course or a fixed penalty and you accept it, it will cost you about £100. If you are prosecuted and plead guilty, you will pay a fine of half a week's net income, reduced by a third for a guilty plea (so a third of a week's income). You will also pay a surcharge of 40% of that fine and about £95 prosecution costs. An income of £500pw will see you with a bill for about £330.

However, if you are found guilty following a trial, you will obviously lose the discount for a guilty plea and prosecution costs will be in the region of £650. So you are looking at a total of £1,000 based on the same income.

I would certainly not take that risk based on what you have showed us.

An approach to the police will cost you nothing though I believe it will fall on deaf ears. An application to consider SRNtE should not incur extra costs. You are not disputing any evidence; I doubt the prosecution would object to you introducing your evidence of the damaged lights. It's simply a matter of the court considering the circumstances.

However, if you are offered an out-of-court disposal I think I would be inclined to accept it.