Author Topic: Received a SJP notice but no NIP  (Read 629 times)

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Speedygonzales

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Received a SJP notice but no NIP
« on: October 21, 2024, 11:16:26 am »
I have a similar issue to recent posts but having read the house rules I will start a fresh.

I have received a Single Justice Procedure notice in the post for a speeding offence back in May (58 in a 40 zone). I did not receive the NIP and this has come as a surprise. Again, not sure who was driving but I am willing to take the fine and the points (I am the registered keeper). Address is correct on the V5C but having issues with Royal mail post not arriving (partner lost a diamond ring a couple months ago, even though it was meant to be signed for and tracked).

Also have I missed two NIPs in total? Years ago, I missed one due to being abroad, but I was sent a reminder.

In a recent post it states:
“The normal way to deal with this is for he registered keeper to plead not guilty to both offences but offer to plead guilty to speeding on the understanding that the "fail to provide" charge will be dropped.”

Could you please confirm this is the best way forward for me.

Thanks for any advice in advance.
Jay

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andy_foster

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Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2024, 01:39:01 pm »
It depends on how strong your potential defence is. On the face of it, your defence is that the NIP/s. 172 was not served (delivered). You would need to prove this (on the balance of probabilities).
If you have independent evidence of ongoing postal issues, e.g. a paper trail of previous complaints to RM, etc., then it might be worth defending the allegations.

If all you have is vague and rambling anecdotes of post going missing previously, then doing the deal might be a better option.
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

666

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Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2024, 02:44:51 pm »

Also have I missed two NIPs in total? Years ago, I missed one due to being abroad, but I was sent a reminder.

You've certainly missed one NIP, for the speeding. Possibly also a reminder, though they are not required by law and many forces don't send them.

The failure to furnish offence doesn't need a NIP.

As for the way forward, I'd echo Andy's advice

Speedygonzales

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Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2024, 03:05:38 pm »
I do not have anything direct from the Royal Mail as it was the jeweler that had to make the claim against royal mail. I do how ever have a protracted email chain with the jeweler that has tracking and escalation numbers from the Royal Mail. The email conversation also highlights how poorly staffed the Royal Mail are and how difficult it is to talk to anybody at the mail centres. Is this classed as vague and rambling anecdotes in the eyes of the law?

Am I right in thinking that if this email chain is accepted as evidence then the original NIP was not issued/served within the 14 days.

andy_foster

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Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2024, 03:08:28 pm »
The failure to furnish offence doesn't need a NIP.

Yes and no. Mostly no.

If the s. 172 requirement, which was incorporated into the NIP, was not served, there was no s. 172 requirement and no s. 172 offence committed. However, assuming that the police can prove that the notice was properly posted, it is presumed to have been served unless the OP can prove otherwise.
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andy_foster

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Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2024, 03:12:12 pm »
Am I right in thinking that if this email chain is accepted as evidence then the original NIP was not issued/served within the 14 days.

Drugs are bad, m'kay?

You would need to convince the bench that (on the balance of probabilities) the NIP was not delivered. Evidence that other items were not delivered, would tend to support your testimony that the NIP was not delivered insofar as it demonstrates that your post sometimes has issues.
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Speedygonzales

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Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2024, 03:35:55 pm »
Plea deal it is, just because I have more important life issues to deal atm.

So, tick both boxes as Not Guilty.

My Not Guilty Plea will be
“Your Single Justice Procedure Notice was my first indication of the speeding offence therefore I have not been able to respond under section 172 as I was not in receipt of the Notice of Intended Prosecution for the Section 89 Road Traffic Act offence.

If you accept my not guilty plea for the section 172 offence, then I (the driver) will plead guilty to the speeding offence.”

Does that sound ok? Anything to add, take out or change?

Southpaw82

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Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2024, 03:42:37 pm »
If you say that, the court ought to reject any guilty plea to the speeding offence, as you’ve indicated that you may have a defence to it. Why not just make the offer, without explaining?

Speedygonzales

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Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2024, 03:57:00 pm »
Apologies for being dumb. Do you mean:

Tick boxes.
Offence 1 section 172 - Not Guilty
Offence 2 speeding - Guilty

My Not Guilty Plea will be
“If you accept my not guilty plea then I (the driver) will plead guilty to the speeding offence.”

I don’t want to attend court. I just want to throw some money at this to make it go away.

666

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Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2024, 04:16:55 pm »
Apologies for being dumb. Do you mean:

Tick boxes.
Offence 1 section 172 - Not Guilty
Offence 2 speeding - Guilty

My Not Guilty Plea will be
“If you accept my not guilty plea then I (the driver) will plead guilty to the speeding offence.”

I don’t want to attend court. I just want to throw some money at this to make it go away.

You don't need to explain your NG plea for the s172 offence, and you certainly must not identify  yourself as the driver at this stage. Just leave it blank.

Do NOT plead guilty to speeding. That would be to throw away your bargaining position. Plead NG, but indicate that you're willing to plead G if the s172 is dropped.

NewJudge

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Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2024, 04:38:07 pm »
Perhaps a little explanation will help you understand this:

At present, unless you plead guilty, you cannot be convicted of speeding as the police have no evidence that you were driving.

They will, however, be fairly confident of seeing you convicted for "Fail to Provide Driver's Details" (FtP). But unless you plead guilty, this will involve a trial and, like you, they have better things to do.

However, if you simply plead Not Guilty to both charges, they will proceed with the one where they are most confident of success (FtP). You don't really want that (because it is a far more damaging conviction) and they don't really want that either because it involves the bother of a trial.

So, you enter NG pleas to both but make it known that you will change your plea and admit speeding if, and only if, they agree to drop the FtP charge.

So the end result should be they are happy because they haven't had to bother with a trial but have still secured a conviction. You are happy because you are only convicted of the offence you actually committed rather than one which was possibly caused by items lost in the post.


Speedygonzales

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Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2024, 06:57:18 pm »
Thank you for the explanation it is appreciated.

Tick both boxes as Not Guilty.

My Not Guilty Plea will be
“I will change my plea and admit to the Speeding offence if, and only if, the Fail to Provide Driver Details offence is dropped.”

Do I need to fill in the My Finances section? Seems a bit intrusive, what happens if I don’t?

Southpaw82

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Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2024, 07:09:50 pm »
Do I need to fill in the My Finances section? Seems a bit intrusive, what happens if I don’t?

That’s how they calculate the fine. Off the top of my head, it’s an offence not to complete it. Up to you.

NewJudge

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Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2024, 07:21:03 pm »
Quote
Do I need to fill in the My Finances section? Seems a bit intrusive, what happens if I don’t?

If you don't and they don't take action against you for failing to do so, they will sentence you on an assumed income of £440pw.

Speedygonzales

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Re: Received a SJP notice but no NIP
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2024, 07:53:15 pm »
Thanks again for all the help. You are doing some good work here.

Glad to see the Pepipoo legacy continues