Author Topic: NIP for speeding - but I was at work 140-ish miles away!  (Read 244 times)

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Nannycorn

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NIP for speeding - but I was at work 140-ish miles away!
« on: January 19, 2024, 10:30:52 pm »
Received a NIP yesterday (34 in a 20, apparently), but at the time of the alleged offence I was at work 140-ish miles away! Misread reg plate? Cloned plates? How do I proceed with this?

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andy_foster

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Re: NIP for speeding - but I was at work 140-ish miles away!
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2024, 08:53:29 am »
It doesn't matter where you were - what matters is where your car was.
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

Nannycorn

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Re: NIP for speeding - but I was at work 140-ish miles away!
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2024, 09:51:51 am »
My car was in the car park adjacent to the office where I work. The key was in my coat pocket on the back of my chair.

M60NJP

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Re: NIP for speeding - but I was at work 140-ish miles away!
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2024, 10:45:50 am »
E-mail or phone and ask them to recheck the image - a mis-read is most likely Cloning happens but is rare. Most (not all) will happily help and may even look at the image while you're on the call and describe the car to you.

Nannycorn

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Re: NIP for speeding - but I was at work 140-ish miles away!
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2024, 11:37:29 am »
No email option to contact the Speed Enforcement Unit. The phone line is only available 08:00-13:00 Tuesday and Thursday. When I called on Thursday, after I got the NIP, in 1hr and 45 mins I had progressed from number 58 in the queue to number 27. It's ridiculous.

M60NJP

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Re: NIP for speeding - but I was at work 140-ish miles away!
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2024, 11:42:18 am »
Sup to you how much time/effort you're prepared to expend. Send a special Delivery letter 1st thing Monday?...........get proof of posting, but pick your words carefully. you have 28 days I assume?

Nannycorn

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Re: NIP for speeding - but I was at work 140-ish miles away!
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2024, 12:06:54 pm »
I guess it'll have to be snail mail - I work full time and I doubt my employer is going to let me wait on the phone for a couple of hours on Tuesday morning trying to get through!

andy_foster

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Re: NIP for speeding - but I was at work 140-ish miles away!
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2024, 02:58:03 pm »
There are 2 separate issues - the requirement under s. 172 RTA 1988 to name the driver, and the possibility that somebody might be driving around with a clone of your plates.

As regards the first, you are asserting that your car was not involved in the offence as it was not at the location in question at the time in question. As such, you [are asserting that you] are not the person keeping the vehicle that was involved in the offence, so your obligation is to provide any information that is in your power to give and that might lead to the identification of the driver. In this case, such information would be that it was not your vehicle as it was 140 miles away at the time. If there is no appropriate section on the s. 172 form to provide such a response, send a signed letter to the effect of the above, stapled to the form and write "SEE ATTACHED" across the form (the format is "best practice", as opposed to a requirement).
Unless the police re-check the photos and see that they needed to go to Specsavers, they may well want to investigate your claim further. You may want to pad out your initial response with more detail and evidence in order to reduce hassle later, but there is no obligation to do so.

However, if somebody is running around with a clone of your plates for nefarious reasons (cloned plates are surprisingly rarely used for altruistic reasons), you might want to get this reported to the proper police asap and get the DVLA to issue you new plates.

Determining whether it was simply a case of one of the shaved chimps in the back office misreading the plate or whether some miscreant is in the process of generating a load of tickets in your name, is generally best resolved by contacting the CTO/FPSU/whatever.

The other possibility is that the time/date is simply wrong - if your car was at the place in question at some other time/date - in which case it might be prudent to wait until it is too late to serve a corrected NIP within the 14 days to contact them, but this seems unlikely.
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

Nannycorn

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Re: NIP for speeding - but I was at work 140-ish miles away!
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2024, 03:59:27 pm »
My car was most definitely not there, and whatever car WAS there, I can offer no information at all regarding the driver.

Although the NIP does specify the make of vehicle correctly, is this info obtained from DVLA when they search on the reg?

I did a search with possible reg numbers that might have been misread, and came up with a valid plate for a different make of car (if a D was misread as O).

As for a possibly incorrect date and/or time, I've never been to the location specified. I've been to Bath, but not for at least 15 years, never to that part of Bath and never by car.

My money is on a reg number misread, which is an understandable human error, but lawd, what a carry on!

The form requests a letter to confirm I dispute the offence, together with photos of my car (front, rear, left and right side views) and any other information I can provide, so I have a print of my Google timeline for that day. I also have an entire office full of people who can vouch for my whereabouts on that day, and potentially computer logs and CCTV too.

All I was really looking for was a template or suggested wording for the letter. I'll be requesting a copy of their photographic evidence, as I believe I have a right to do so.

Hopefully it is just a misread of the reg and it'll all go away once someone with two functioning eyes and a couple of braincells to rub together takes a second look.

NewJudge

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Re: NIP for speeding - but I was at work 140-ish miles away!
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2024, 04:27:56 pm »
Quote
I'll be requesting a copy of their photographic evidence, as I believe I have a right to do so.

No, you don't have that right.

As Andy says, since your car wasn't there, you were not the person "keeping" whatever car was. You need to make sure you comply with your duty under s172 and if you provide a letter as Andy suggests that should do the job. If you are prosecuted under s172 it seems that as well as your own testimony, you have ample evidence to prove what you are saying and you should make sure that evidence is preserved.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2024, 04:29:55 pm by NewJudge »

andy_foster

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Re: NIP for speeding - but I was at work 140-ish miles away!
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2024, 04:45:09 pm »
Technically, you can request whatever you like. Whether they will send you anything or not is another matter.

As stated, you are not legally obliged to do any more than tell them that your car was nowhere near the location in question - although the more upfront you are now, potentially the less d*cking around will be required later. It is up to the police to prove that your car was there, not to you to prove that it wasn't - although if they have photos of an identical car with your plates, you would then need to prove that it wasn't yours.

Basically, it is generally prudent to send them enough to enable them to accept that it wasn't your car. A pair of glasses, perhaps?

It has previously been suggested that as the police tend to clam up when people suggest that their car was not there - it would be prudent to request copies of the photos "to help to identify the driver" before telling them that your car was 140 miles away. As a natural cycnic, if I was a magistrate and somebody needed to check what the photos showed before deciding that their car was 140 miles away at the time, I would be questioning their credibility.
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

d612

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Re: NIP for speeding - but I was at work 140-ish miles away!
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2024, 08:23:40 am »
I'd add in with your submission denying you/or your car were anywhere near the location, instead exactly where you did drive on that day - ie as you say from work there and back home as you may well have driven past an ANPR camera on your way to/from work which would establish that at least at that particular time your car was nowhere near Bath.

Nannycorn

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Re: NIP for speeding - but I was at work 140-ish miles away!
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2024, 08:28:40 am »
I'm pretty sure there are no ANPR cameras on the 1.7 mile journey to/from my place of work, but I'll happily describe the route. I have a print of my Google Maps timeline for that day, but that only really proves where my phone was, technically.