3. Speeding and given 3 points
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Swahmad

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Speeding and given 3 points
« on: August 05, 2024, 10:59:30 am »
I was caught speeding. I realised I was speeding about 40 on a 30 downhill so slowed down. Police waved me down from the side of the road so I stopped. I admitted to driving at 40 and they says I'll receive something in the mail which I have. I think I gave thrown the envelope.

The officer did not say the "anything you say maybe used against you" line and after the officers left I was then sat in my car to take a breather. The officer then came back and said I forgot to say it and then said the line.
Would this be appealable? Ultimately I was speeding.
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Swahmad

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Re: Speeding and given 3 points
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2024, 11:00:31 am »
This happened on 11th July.
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andy_foster

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Re: Speeding and given 3 points
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2024, 11:51:56 am »
The lack of a PACE caution could make any admissions you made (other than your name and address) inadmissible as evidence against you. So, if the police waved you down because they were bored and lonely and had no admissible evidence that you were speeding, other than your admission obtained without a caution, they would have a very shaky case against you.

Obviously, that is unless it was on the second Sunday of the month, in which case the PACE rules do not apply.
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The Rookie

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Re: Speeding and given 3 points
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2024, 12:11:20 pm »
Quote from: Swahmad on August 05, 2024, 10:59:30 am
I was caught speeding. I realised I was speeding about 40 on a 30 downhill so slowed down. Police waved me down from the side of the road so I stopped. I admitted to driving at 40 and they says I'll receive something in the mail which I have. I think I gave thrown the envelope.
So adding 2 and 2 up to make 5
1/ They did send 'something in the mail'?
2/ That something is presumable a Conditional OFFER of a Fixed Penalty of 3pts/£100? (so not 'given' you 3 points but offering it)
3/ You threw away the envelope it came in but think it may have some relevance (I don't think it does, but maybe you're thinking of the 14 days to serve a NIP which is irrelevant for a COFP)

Unless they need to rely on an admission, as AF hints at, the lack of a caution is meaningless and is rarely actually given for roadside stops for speeding as no admission is required to convict you.  That said did he at any time warn you that you may be prosecuted for the offence? (regulars may see where I'm going here, but please answer the question first).
« Last Edit: August 05, 2024, 12:17:58 pm by The Rookie »
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Swahmad

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Re: Speeding and given 3 points
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2024, 08:48:05 am »
Quote from: The Rookie on August 05, 2024, 12:11:20 pm
Quote from: Swahmad on August 05, 2024, 10:59:30 am
I was caught speeding. I realised I was speeding about 40 on a 30 downhill so slowed down. Police waved me down from the side of the road so I stopped. I admitted to driving at 40 and they says I'll receive something in the mail which I have. I think I gave thrown the envelope.
So adding 2 and 2 up to make 5
1/ They did send 'something in the mail'?
2/ That something is presumable a Conditional OFFER of a Fixed Penalty of 3pts/£100? (so not 'given' you 3 points but offering it)
3/ You threw away the envelope it came in but think it may have some relevance (I don't think it does, but maybe you're thinking of the 14 days to serve a NIP which is irrelevant for a COFP)

Unless they need to rely on an admission, as AF hints at, the lack of a caution is meaningless and is rarely actually given for roadside stops for speeding as no admission is required to convict you.  That said did he at any time warn you that you may be prosecuted for the offence? (regulars may see where I'm going here, but please answer the question first).
Thanks for your response.

Yes I've received the letter in the mail and offer of 3 points and a £100 fine. I've only mentioned the envelope as it came up not to throw it away in the "read before posting".

They said I would receive something in the mail. I can't remember the exact wording they used. They didn't threaten to arrest me or anything like that if that's what you mean by warning me I bay be prosecuted
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Swahmad

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Re: Speeding and given 3 points
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2024, 08:50:00 am »
Quote from: andy_foster on August 05, 2024, 11:51:56 am
The lack of a PACE caution could make any admissions you made (other than your name and address) inadmissible as evidence against you. So, if the police waved you down because they were bored and lonely and had no admissible evidence that you were speeding, other than your admission obtained without a caution, they would have a very shaky case against you.

Obviously, that is unless it was on the second Sunday of the month, in which case the PACE rules do not apply.

Thanks for your response. This happened Thursday 11th July. The police implied they were there as a girl had died on this road previously and so we're doing random checks. They were marked on the side waiting for drivers.
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The Rookie

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Re: Speeding and given 3 points
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2024, 10:37:30 am »
Quote from: Swahmad on August 06, 2024, 08:48:05 am
I've only mentioned the envelope as it came up not to throw it away in the "read before posting".

They said I would receive something in the mail. I can't remember the exact wording they used. They didn't threaten to arrest me or anything like that if that's what you mean by warning me I bay be prosecuted
That note
Quote
DO NOT dispose of anything, including the envelope that the original NIP came in
is for NIPs as it says not COFPs.

No, I meant exactly what I said. 
Standard/common phrasing (though not mandated) is something like
Quote
You'll be reported for consideration for prosecution for the offence of speeding
However you just have to be warned such that you are aware you may be prosecuted.
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