3. cycle box and a Bus
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psychochild187

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cycle box and a Bus
« on: July 24, 2024, 01:08:40 pm »
hello everyone,  i am glad to find this site after pepipoo was not working.

i tried searching but not much cam up for what i need advice on ,

i had a call just now about a NIP from a day i was driving a double decker bus and i stopped over the line into the cycle box,

it was a 30 zone in brighton and with a whole school of kids the lights i watch go green and thought great and before i knew it they switched to red,   they must be smart lights , but i could have stopped . but i did my best to not have everyone off thier seats.  i ended up in the cycle box,    3 lanes wide , no car behind or infront or bikes or anything.   just me with my bus a good chunk into the cycle box.

does anyone know where large vehicles stand in scenarios like this .  i didnt want teachers and kids falling over


i am yet to get the paperwork through in my name
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The Rookie

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Re: cycle box and a Bus
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2024, 01:43:50 pm »
If the light was red you must not (under any circumstances) cross the advanced stop line (any part of the vehicle) into the 'cycle box'.
If the light was amber and you crossed the advanced stop line into the 'cycle box' you would have a defence if you can show it was unsafe to stop before the line.

Basically the advanced stop line in law is the same as the main stop line.

I do recognise that with slow moving large vehicles this can make the situation hard (to impossible) but that is the law as it.

If this was detected by a static camera it is all but certain the allegation is true and that you breached the stop line with the lights red, if it's a report from a member of the public there may be discrepancies in the allegation. When you have the paperwork in your name you can always request 'a copy of photos to help confirm the driver's ID' or similar (avoiding asking for 'evidence') and see what it shows.

If you know the EXACT location please share it or a Google street view link and/or check for a static camera.
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psychochild187

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Re: cycle box and a Bus
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2024, 03:09:08 pm »
https://maps.app.goo.gl/NQeD4qWz2cHSxWLw7

a270 west bound into brighton .

i understand the law is black and white.  but if i can just carryied on going i would have been fine . but because i attempted to stop i ended up in the box .

but with regard to appeals and mitigating circumstances is that a possibility to find a way to point out with passengers and the fact i watched the lights go green and didnt expect them to switch back so fast, that i have any chance of an appeal.  obviously this is my job and my own licence.    just looking out for passenger comfort was my main aim
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The Rookie

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Re: cycle box and a Bus
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2024, 08:34:34 pm »
It’s not ‘ending up in the box’ that is an offence, it’s crossing the stop line on red as I explained (I thought). There is no offence of stopping in the box.

So if you could have carried on and crossed both lines fully by the time the light went red then yes you would have been fine, if not you wouldn’t.

So that’s a static camera, the sensor lines are triggered as you cross the advanced stop line.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2024, 08:36:28 pm by The Rookie »
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psychochild187

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Re: cycle box and a Bus
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2024, 10:45:12 pm »
but with your own words . "hard to impossible".  law or not there should be some give with certain circumstances.
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Southpaw82

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Re: cycle box and a Bus
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2024, 11:32:10 pm »
Quote from: psychochild187 on July 24, 2024, 10:45:12 pm
but with your own words . "hard to impossible".  law or not there should be some give with certain circumstances.

We deal with what the law is, not what you (or anyone else) think it should be.
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psychochild187

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Re: cycle box and a Bus
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2024, 11:47:46 pm »
i understand the law on this one before it was said to me but i am looking for a way out of it.  i feel its unfair for lights to go green and change back again so fast stitching me up. i only wish to know how to contest it , what route i may need to take

i have had lights change so fast recently i have not managed to pull away through them before they went back to red.  this cant be right either
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666

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Re: cycle box and a Bus
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2024, 07:07:14 am »
Quote from: psychochild187 on July 25, 2024, 11:47:46 pm
i understand the law on this one before it was said to me but i am looking for a way out of it.  i feel its unfair for lights to go green and change back again so fast stitching me up. i only wish to know how to contest it , what route i may need to take

Didn't the lights change to amber before red? That should show for 3 seconds.
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The Rookie

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Re: cycle box and a Bus
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2024, 08:07:51 am »
Quote from: psychochild187 on July 25, 2024, 11:47:46 pm
i feel its unfair for lights to go green and change back again so fast stitching me up. i only wish to know how to contest it , what route i may need to take

i have had lights change so fast recently i have not managed to pull away through them before they went back to red.  this cant be right either
As above, if the lights weren't amber for 3 seconds (+/- 0.25s) then they are defective and that would give a defence.

However there is no defence available if the light controller (be that pre-set timing or a computer controlled system adjusting for traffic flows) decides to only set the lights green for a short period (or probably more relevantly shorter than you expect) period of time.
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psychochild187

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Re: cycle box and a Bus
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2024, 10:48:04 pm »
why not ?   if its red for 5 mins why would you expect it to be only green for 10 seconds?
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Southpaw82

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Re: cycle box and a Bus
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2024, 12:00:05 am »
Quote from: psychochild187 on July 26, 2024, 10:48:04 pm
why not ?  if its red for 5 mins why would you expect it to be only green for 10 seconds?

Are you just here to argue with people who don’t tell you what you want to hear?
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The Rookie

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Re: cycle box and a Bus
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2024, 09:22:30 am »
Quote from: psychochild187 on July 26, 2024, 10:48:04 pm
why not ?  if its red for 5 mins why would you expect it to be only green for 10 seconds?
Surely a careful and competent driver doesn’t rely on ‘expect’ but observations?
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roythebus

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Re: cycle box and a Bus
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2024, 11:13:55 pm »
As a bus driver of some 51 years, it is almost impossible to stop a fully laden bus when the lights change suddenly, especially when standing passengers are taken into account. The risk of injury is considerable. When such cases are taken to court, the magistrates used to take this into account. It's been a talking point at a couple of driver CPC courses I've been on.

It appears that these additional "bike box" line have been installed and the traffic lights have not been altered to take into account the shorter stopping distances from the yellow light being shown. There's also a time lag between taking the foot off the gas, going onto the brake and pressing it, then waiting for the air to flow through to th brake cylinders to apply the brakes, something that is unnoticeable in a car. I don't believe any of this has been taken into account

Does your bus have CCTV? Are you in the Union? If so the union rep could possibly provide some information and advice on this.
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The Rookie

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Re: cycle box and a Bus
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2024, 08:17:35 am »
Quote from: roythebus on August 01, 2024, 11:13:55 pm
It appears that these additional "bike box" line have been installed and the traffic lights have not been altered to take into account the shorter stopping distances
No the stopping distance hasn't shortened at all! You still have the distance available in the 3s amber period to the relevant stop line and the option to continue if unsafe to stop (as long as you pass on amber of course).  You wouldn't clam the distance had decreased if they had merely moved the stop line.
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mickR

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Re: cycle box and a Bus
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2024, 09:08:48 am »
Quote from: The Rookie on August 02, 2024, 08:17:35 am
Quote from: roythebus on August 01, 2024, 11:13:55 pm
It appears that these additional "bike box" line have been installed and the traffic lights have not been altered to take into account the shorter stopping distances
No the stopping distance hasn't shortened at all! You still have the distance available in the 3s amber period to the relevant stop line and the option to continue if unsafe to stop (as long as you pass on amber of course).  You wouldn't clam the distance had decreased if they had merely moved the stop line.
surely the stopping distance would only be the same if the lights were moved up to the new stop line.
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