3. Confirming speed: SpeedCurb camera
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Confirming speed: SpeedCurb camera
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I received a NIP for 29 in a 20 and have to choose between speed awareness, penalty + points or a hearing. However, I was somewhat surprised to receive the ticket as I am aware of the camera and limit, therefore I seek to verify my guilt or lack of it. 

The evidence online does not allow me do calculate my speed as it only shows the time of the alleged offence. The secondary image is not time stamped as claimed by the Met. I sent a chase up email to request the missing evidence but now I am nearly out of time. I am reluctant to rely on a phone call if it disproves the offence. I will try calling in the morning to see if they will reveal the delay and confirm the distance between the piezo sensors.

Given that the police will not allow me to check, what is my best option? Clearly, the easy/safe option is to suck it up and take the speed awareness course. Thanks in advance


As you will see, there is a valid calibration certificate but nobody seems prepared to provide the daily check log

[mod edit: inaccessible links removed]
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 03:13:00 pm by andy_foster »
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Re: Confirming speed: SpeedCurb camera
« Reply #1 on: »
We can’t see anything, presumably because imgur is blocked in the UK.
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Re: Confirming speed: SpeedCurb camera
« Reply #2 on: »
None of your photos are viewable.

Speedcurb relies on buried sensors to confirm the speed and is not checkable visually (unlike the old GATSO cameras). No actual evidence needs to be disclosed at this point.

So either accept the awareness course or take a chance the evidence (slim at best) shows you were no speeding.
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Re: Confirming speed: SpeedCurb camera
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote from: BruceA on Yesterday at 03:02:00 pm
<...>I seek to verify my guilt or lack of it.
 
<...>what is my best option?

1. You are not entitled to see the evidence against you at this stage. If you can get it out of them, then great. If not, you need to ask yourself one question...

2. Using an image hosting site that is inaccessible from UK IP addresses is NOT your best option.
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Re: Confirming speed: SpeedCurb camera
« Reply #4 on: »
Bah! I was unaware that Imgur was blocked in the UK. It worked OK when I previewed.  Sorry about that.

Hmm, it seems very unfair that one can't confirm the evidence. As you can see, they incorrectly claimed that the evidence online allowed this  >:(

It sounds like it's not worth the gamble. Thanks.


Good morning,

Thank you for your correspondence.

To address your queries, please see the information below:

•   The secondary check mark distance is detailed within the camera evidence document. For RedSpeed devices, these markings are set at 1 metre apart.
•   The images used for secondary checking, including the time interval between frames, are also shown within the camera evidence document. This includes the recorded frame delay and the two wide-angle images provided.
•   A calibration certificate is attached for your reference. This confirms the period during which the camera has been tested and deemed accurate.

With regard to system logs, the Metropolitan Police does not retain these records. Should you wish to obtain such information, you would need to contact the equipment supplier, Redspeed International, directly.

Please note that we do not assist with or facilitate such requests.

As the enforcement authority, the Metropolitan Police considers the camera evidence sufficient to prove the offence when supported by a Section 20 certificate, as required.

Finally, I note that you have signed the admission. This will now be processed, and an automatic eligibility check will be carried out to determine whether you qualify for a course. You will be contacted in due course with the outcome.


Yours sincerely


Samuel Tingley
Safety Camera Processing Caseworker
MO10 – Met Prosecutions
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Re: Confirming speed: SpeedCurb camera
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: BruceA on Yesterday at 03:02:00 pm
Given that the police will not allow me to check, what is my best option? Clearly, the easy/safe option is to suck it up and take the speed awareness course.
You've answered your own question: take the course and not a stain on your character. If you carry on questioning things, then this'll go straight to court as the police may consider you are disputing the allegation, and court is the only place to do so formally. Think about it: they are alleging you exceeded the limit by nearly 50%. Can you honestly claim you were doing 20 or less (doing less than 110%+2 is not good enough on its own)?
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Re: Confirming speed: SpeedCurb camera
« Reply #6 on: »
Thanks, guys.

I think it's pretty poor that you can't see the evidence so have to gamble, poker-style, that they are right. Justice should be transparent. I recall in the days when I was involved with a protest group, we targeted the CCTV $camera cars and found they were issuing fines in illegal circumstances on a regular basis  ::) Richmond Council didn't even have a licence to operate them! Here's a good example of why I distrust camera enforcement:

All in all, I can't complain as it's only my second speeding ticket in over half a century of driving.
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Re: Confirming speed: SpeedCurb camera
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote
Justice should be transparent.

But when being offered an out-of-court disposal you are being given an opportunity to avoid the justice system. Accepting that offer would see a very considerable discount compared to the cost of being dealt with in court - even if you plead guilty. The police see a considerable cost saving as well and that is why they will generally not engage in correspondence, because it negates their savings,

But to take advantage of that discount you must accept the allegation as it stands. If you don't want to do that then you can have the matter heard in court where all the usual rules of transparency apply. And of course, if you are right and no offence has been committed, you face no penalty.

By saying you are almost out of time, it gives me the impression that if you had been provided with the evidence that you seek and it seemed to show no offence had been committed, you would not have named yourself as the driver (or why else are you delaying doing so?). That would see you on the wrong end of six points, whether you were right or not.
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Re: Confirming speed: SpeedCurb camera
« Reply #8 on: »
Yeah, I only queried in because the statement they made was incorrect:  The images used for secondary checking, including the time interval between frames, are also shown within the camera evidence document.

I went for the easy option :-)
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Re: Confirming speed: SpeedCurb camera
« Reply #9 on: »
We know. You've told us already.
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