Author Topic: Close Pass  (Read 946 times)

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POLICE999

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Close Pass
« on: August 30, 2024, 09:51:33 am »
Got this sent by police as close pass. camera lens makes it look closer than really is.
From kerb to centre line is 3m . The near side wheel is just 8" from centre line. I did have dashcam footage but was overwriten as was two week before came in post. my car is 5 foot wide and even if he was in centre of road when i passed that would still be 1.5m away. include a few photos of road. I am going to court in feb to defend what are you views.

many thanks

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POLICE999

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Re: Close Pass
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2024, 09:53:55 am »
upload folder full could not upload any pics

DWMB2

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Re: Close Pass
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2024, 10:04:44 am »
You'll need to use Imgur or another 3rd party site to share images.

666

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Re: Close Pass
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2024, 10:15:16 am »
OP, can you please stick either to Imperial or metric?

The Rookie

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Re: Close Pass
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2024, 10:15:46 am »
my car is 5 foot wide
That's pretty unlikely, very few modern cars are anywhere near that narrow, even a 1970's mk2 Escort was wider than that.  Also best to stick to one set of units, you've not shared anything (and probably didn't read the 'read this first' sticky which tells you how to), but to be 1.5m away on a 3m wide lane with the cycle in the centre of the lane your nearside would have to be at least 30cm (half the width of a typical bike) the OTHER side of the centre line.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2024, 10:22:02 am by The Rookie »
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POLICE999

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Re: Close Pass
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2024, 10:52:15 am »
sorry my car is 1780cm wide and my nearside wheel was 200cm from centre line. the road was 3m to centre line even if you take off the 200cm from the 3m . how can anysay i did not give room to a single cycleist ?

DWMB2

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Re: Close Pass
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2024, 10:57:55 am »
how can anysay i did not give room to a single cycleist ?

Without seeing any of the footage and/or images, we can't really say anything either way. If you want any advice we really could do with seeing the images, and assuming they're stills from a video, ideally the video.

sorry my car is 1780cm wide and my nearside wheel was 200cm from centre line. the road was 3m to centre line even if you take off the 200cm from the 3m .
I think you may need to double check these numbers - 1780cm is 58ft!
« Last Edit: August 30, 2024, 11:04:20 am by DWMB2 »
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Dave Green

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Re: Close Pass
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2024, 11:05:41 am »
sorry my car is 1780cm wide and my nearside wheel was 200cm from centre line. the road was 3m to centre line even if you take off the 200cm from the 3m . how can anysay i did not give room to a single cycleist ?

Just about all of your figures are out by a factor of 10.

I'm assuming that you meant that your car was 20cm from the centre line and not 200cm.

If the road was 300cm wide, your car is 178cm wide and you were 20cm from the centre line then even if the cyclist was tight up against the side of the road, the furthest you could have been from them is 102cm.
Allowing for the cyclist to be even 10cm from the side of the road then you must have been closer than 1m when you passed.

NewJudge

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Re: Close Pass
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2024, 11:16:39 am »
Quote
sorry my car is 1780cm wide and my nearside wheel was 200cm from centre line. the road was 3m to centre line even if you take off the 200cm from the 3m . how can anysay i did not give room to a single cycleist ?

Do you mean 200cm or 20cm?

If your nearside wheel was 200cm from the centre line (presumably of the left of it) the cyclist had just one metre. If it was 20cm the cyclist had 2.8m.

Anyway, the Highway Code suggests leaving at least 1.5m when travelling at speeds up to 30mph, more than that if travelling faster. Could you clarify the distances involved because I'm somewhat confused.

The Rookie

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Re: Close Pass
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2024, 11:53:14 am »
my nearside wheel was 200cm from centre line.
Which side of it, there is a 400cm (or more likely 40cm difference (plus width of the line) between one side of it and the other!

Your descriptions so far are as clear as mud.

We know the width you have given for the lane (location on Google and we can measure it)
You've given a width for the car but don't say if hat includes mirrors or not.
You've given a description for the position of your car which can be one of two places.
We've no idea where the cyclist was.

Just throwing out numbers is of little help.

The Guidance is 1.5m, but you can still be convicted of careless driving further away than that if your driving fell below the standard of a careful and competent driver.
There are motorists who have been scammed and those who are yet to be scammed!

NewJudge

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Re: Close Pass
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2024, 12:28:30 pm »
Just tell us this: how far away was the near side of your car from the cyclist when you passed?

Forget the middle line, forget the width of your car, forget the width of the carriageway (unless it was unusually narrow). None of that matters. All that matters is how much room you gave the cyclist. Give it in whatever units you like. The HC suggests a minimum of 1.5 metres at speeds up to 30mph. That is near enough five feet. So was it more or less than that?

mickR

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Re: Close Pass
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2024, 05:12:39 pm »
do as we already know the HC is "guidance" is there really a case for plod to consider it a dangerous pass if the driver gave less than 1.5m ? I'm not suggesting significantly less. If yes then why does the HC not state "must" as in a legal definition
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666

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Re: Close Pass
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2024, 05:32:43 pm »
do as we already know the HC is "guidance" is there really a case for plod to consider it a dangerous pass if the driver gave less than 1.5m ? I'm not suggesting significantly less. If yes then why does the HC not state "must" as in a legal definition

The HC says that because it must reflect the law as it is. Parliament make the law, not the DVSA.

However, the test for careless driving is whether it "falls below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver.", and it must be reasonable for a court to conclude that such a "competent and careful driver" would be obeying the rules in the HC.

Southpaw82

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Re: Close Pass
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2024, 07:35:30 pm »
Road Traffic Act 1988, s 38(7):

Quote
A failure on the part of a person to observe a provision of the Highway Code shall not of itself render that person liable to criminal proceedings of any kind but any such failure may in any proceedings (whether civil or criminal, and including proceedings for an offence under the Traffic Acts, the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 or sections 18 to 23 of the Transport Act 1985) be relied upon by any party to the proceedings as tending to establish or negative any liability which is in question in those proceedings.

POLICE999

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Re: Close Pass
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2024, 10:07:56 am »
I was least 1.5 m away from rider but snap shot looks closer as lens are wide angle.
i have pleaded not guilty by post and have asked for footage from the police do they have to release footage for my defense as i have had no reply only new court date in feb.
sorry if i cant write great posts as im dyslexic and have had a stroke. its my wife who was driving on that day.
thank you