Author Topic: 31 in 20: NIP/172, driver confirmed, no comms for 5 months - SJPN now received!  (Read 531 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

WinterDay

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Found my way here having used Pepipoo for parking fines years ago. I have researched posts on this forum relating to a speeding offence issue my wife now has and would really appreciate any advice.

Driver:  My wife.  Age:  40+  Licence:  Full, 5+ years, clean (always), no recent address changes. 
Vehicle:  14 year old Astra, her car - she is registered keeper.  Logbook correct, no recent address changes.
11/06/24:  Caught speeding by camera van, 31 in a 20, Local Traffic Order.  West Yorkshire Police.
13/06/24:  NIP/172 received by my wife.
15/06/24:  She reviewed photos online, nominated herself as driver online and gave full licence details.

Nothing further heard of it for 5 months, until:

16/11/24:  SJPN received by my wife!  Charge date 14/11/24. Statement of facts includes:
"....The defendant has responded to a request under S172 of RTA 1988 which was sent on 13/06/2024 and provided an admission to being the driver at the time of the offence.  Retraining Course offered but not booked or taken.  Conditional Offer - no record of licence details or payment being received by HMCTS"

No offer or any other correspondence was received.  No question of this.  We are very organised and nobody else has access to our house.
 
We HAVE had postal delivery issues previously.
1) We are number "X" on our street with next door number "Xa".  They are the only "a" on the street.  They've had our post and us theirs a few times in the 3 years we've been here.  Haven't been on the best terms with them in the last year or so, but I'd hope they would still pass on any wrongly delivered mail as we do.
2) 2-3 letters have not arrived to us previously and we've received 2-3 cards/letters addressed to street with a similar name which isn't too far away. 

However, my understanding is that the police need only demonstrate proof of postage which we assume they will be able to.  As we have nothing documented to evidence our previous postal issues it seems not worth trying to argue any of this to sway the "balance of probability" that nothing was delivered. 
Is this correct?
Should she now just plead guilty by post?
Should she include / not include anything specifically (assume attempted mitigation) in the section "What do you want the court to consider about your guilty plea(s)?"
Is outcome likely to be?
 - 2/3 to 1 weeks net salary - potentially reduced by 33% for guilty plea
 - Victim Surcharge of 40% of the fine
 - Prosecution costs of £90
 - 4-6 points on licence

Can she now at all avoid this much bigger financial penalty and more points vs if she had received the initial offer and taken a speed awareness course....or even chosen a £100 fine and 3 points?

Total cost of the penalty appears to be roughly equal to the value of her car and assume will further impact through higher insurance costs.  All very hard to accept given the situation here which she could have done nothing to avoid.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2024, 02:55:16 am by WinterDay »

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter


andy_foster

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 739
  • Karma: +12/-10
  • Location: Reading
    • View Profile
No idea how or why you're attempting to post in HTML. Wasn't supported on PePiPoo and isn't supported here.

Do you want a good rant, or do you actually want some advice?

If the latter, you might have better luck if you tidy up your post and post proper questions, rather than sticking question marks at the end of statements.
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.

WinterDay

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Seemed a weird glitch to me too, but the preview of my post kept showing as one big wall of text without me manually adding the HTML line breaks!

So was trying to make it more readable, which now seems somewhat ironic given your criticism.

Whatever the issue is continues in this post too.

In the input window my post has a single line spacing after each full stop - with no HTML line breaks coding added.

Not so in the preview window - and so testing this for the final post....

WinterDay

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Ah.  So it appears it's the Preview post function that doesn't work properly, but the final post actually displays correctly.  I'll edit my original post.

Ok I will edit the more statement like questions too as evidently not appropriate.

JRHartley

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The Speed Awareness Course is now gone, unfortunately. That settlement is not available to the court.

The best option for your wife now would be to plead guilty and ask to be sentenced at the Fixed Penalty level, as a COFP was offered, but couldn't be accepted due to administrative reasons unrelated to the offence.

WinterDay

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
@ JRHartley - Thanks for replying.

Frustrating that speed awareness course is now impossible as she quite obviously would have done that.

Assume COFP means "Conditional Offer Fixed Penalty"?   Is that he £100 fine and 3 points?

In terms of how to complete the form - should she simply state something like:

 "Please could I be sentenced at the Fixed Penalty level, as a COFP was offered, but couldn't be accepted due to administrative reasons unrelated to the offence."

Or is that just a summary - and she should actually go into detail about her responding online within 2 days to the NIP/S172 and would have taken speed awareness course but never received the offer.   And points around potential reasons why - I.E - potential postage related issues I noted above?

She/I have no experience around anything like this and want to make sure she has the best chance of the lowest fine/points possible - and so don't want to leave detail out, or annoy a magistrate with too much irrelevant detail or the wrong tone of her response.



666

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Karma: +8/-6
    • View Profile
@ JRHartley - Thanks for replying.

Frustrating that speed awareness course is now impossible as she quite obviously would have done that.

Assume COFP means "Conditional Offer Fixed Penalty"?  Is that he £100 fine and 3 points?

In terms of how to complete the form - should she simply state something like:

 "Please could I be sentenced at the Fixed Penalty level, as a COFP was offered, but couldn't be accepted due to administrative reasons unrelated to the offence."

Or is that just a summary - and she should actually go into detail about her responding online within 2 days to the NIP/S172 and would have taken speed awareness course but never received the offer.  And points around potential reasons why - I.E - potential postage related issues I noted above?

She/I have no experience around anything like this and want to make sure she has the best chance of the lowest fine/points possible - and so don't want to leave detail out, or annoy a magistrate with too much irrelevant detail or the wrong tone of her response.

I'd suggest "Please could I be sentenced at the Fixed Penalty level, as a COFP was apparently sent but was not received."

(a) In general, it's best to be brief, and

(b) the court will know it was unrelated etc.

WinterDay

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Thank you for the info.  I'll tell her to complete with just that statement then.

My instinct was to tell her to include much more information as I outlined - as reasoning to try and convince the magistrate of the truth of the admin/postal/whatever issue that must have caused her to not receive the COFP.

But I suppose being as brief as possible indicates that she understands the situation now, regardless of what caused it, and so is being straightforward and quick - which hopefully is treated favourably? 

Either way, will take the experience of the forum - as we have none here!

WinterDay

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Form has questions about finances - anyone able to help?...

"Avg take home income (i.e after tax)"  So her gross - less tax...and NI?  (So before anything like pension contributions and a share save scheme she is in comes off?)

Her base salary is low but she can earn monthly and quarterly bonus's and fairly often does.  None guaranteed though.   What's the correct way to complete this?
 
Monthly outgoings - we share mortgage and bills but I earn and pay more towards them.  Should she state the full payments required (will look impossible for her alone) or about 50% which is more reasonable?

Assets - asks to list, is this just "I own my car, my husband and I are co-owners of our house with mortgage" or does it need more detail?

NewJudge

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 407
  • Karma: +16/-0
    • View Profile
Simply state how much she actually takes home each week/month. No need to get too bogged down; unless it is ridiculously low nobody is going to query it.

Outgoings are only considered when agreeing a payment plan. Unless they are unusually high they will not influence that significantly and will have no influence at all if the total sum ordered is settled in one go.

WinterDay

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Ah I see.  Ok thank you!