Author Topic: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?  (Read 1178 times)

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b789

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2024, 02:57:13 pm »
You're appealing as the keeper only. Unless there's an option to select other or keeper only, don't use their online appeals. Send your appeal as an email attachment to them or post it. Your choice.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

docklander

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2024, 03:48:26 pm »
There is no option to appeal by email. In fact their website says:

For appeals, please use the green button, top right, or visit the PCN and Appeals Contact page.
An appeal sent to the ‘Info’ or ‘media’ email addresses, or via the form below, will not go to the correct department. Therefore it will not be accepted as an appeal and will not be processed.

Does anyone have an email for them or does this mean I have to write to them? If this doesnt work, does the £50 charge stay for over 14 days if I lodge the appeal within that time?

Thanks

b789

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2024, 04:01:28 pm »
If you're considering the "mugs discount" then just go ahead and pay it. If you want to appeal, then just select you were not the driver, even if you were. It's not a statement of truth and it is the only option they have given you which removes your right to not disclose the drivers identity, which is entrapment... or just post it to them by snail mail but ideally, get a free "certificate of posting" from any post office.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

DWMB2

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2024, 11:19:53 pm »
Send it by post would be my view, getting a free certificate of posting as described.

It might not be a statement of truth, but this forum won't advise choosing an option that may involve stating something that isn't true.

H C Andersen

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2024, 12:26:26 pm »
does the £50 charge stay for over 14 days if I lodge the appeal within that time?

By virtue of their Code of Practice, in the event of an unsuccessful appeal the creditor is obliged to offer a further 14 days to pay at the rate  prevailing when the appeal was ???

The actual wording is:

..if the recipient appeals within 28 days of receiving the parking charge...

The discount is available as follows:
'..payment of the charge is required within 28 days from the date of this charge..we will accept the reduced sum if payment is received within 14 days.'

14 days of when??

To maintain the discount in accordance with their written terms, then IMO as the parking charge * is dated 14th then 28th, tomorrow, would be the last day for them to receive any appeal. This would seem to preclude sending by post.

*- they still don't get this! The 'parking charge' is payable by the driver upon breach of the parking contract i.e. the date of the breach. But operators continually refer to the 'parking charge' as if it's the parking charge notice, which of course it isn't.

docklander

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2024, 06:00:27 pm »
I sent the letter with the suggested text and have had no reply.

Today I received a letter dated 31/10/2024 saying that as they have had no payment, I now need to pay £100. If  I do not pay within 14 days, they "may" ask a debt recovery agent, etc.

Whats the next step please gang?

DWMB2

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2024, 06:13:10 pm »
When did you send the appeal?

docklander

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2024, 06:31:07 pm »
It would have been around 26 or 27 October

b789

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2024, 09:35:51 am »
It would have been around 26 or 27 October

Was it 26th or 27th October. Your "Proof of Posting" certificate will tell you.

They have 28 days to respond to your appeal. According to you, it's only been about 11 or 12 days!

Don't get your hopes up anyway. You have more chance of winning the lottery than an initial appealing upheld.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

docklander

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2024, 05:57:25 pm »
I have had a reply from Group Nexus. Thoughts on next step?

Dated 27.11, received 06.12

Thank you for your correspondence elating to your Parking Charge. The Charge was issued and the signage is displayed in compliance with The British Parking Association's Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice and all relevant laws and regulations. Clear signs at the entrance of this site and throughout inform drivers of the terms and conditions that apply there, and it is not possible to access any part of the premises without passing multiple signs. Your representations are not considered a mitigating circumstance for appeal. We confirm the Charge was issued under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. As no driver details have been provided, we are holding the registered keeper of the vehicle liable. In light of this, n this occasion, your representations have been carefully considered and rejected. We can confirm that We will hold the charge at the current rate for a further 14 days from the date of this correspondence.

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure.

Although we have now rejected your appeal, you may still have recourse to appeal to Parking On Private Land Appeals (POPLA), an independent appeals service. An appeal to POPLA must be made within 28 days of the date of this letter. POPLA will only consider cases on the grounds that the Parking Charge exceeded the appropriate amount, that the not improperly parked or had been stolen, or that you were otherwise not liable for the Parking Charge. vehicle was To appeal to POPLA, please go to their website http://www.popla.co.uk and follow the instructions. If you would rather deal with this matter by post, please contact our Appeals Office and we will send you the necessary paperwork. Your POPLA reference number is: XXX P

lease note that if your appeal does not relate to the above criteria or is rejected by POPLA for any reason, you will no longer qualify for payment at the reduced rate. POPLA will not consider any cases where payment has been made.

By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (www.ombudsman-services.org/) provides an  alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.
Yours sincerely
CP Plus Limited GNI

b789

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2024, 11:07:21 am »
You have 33 days from the appeal rejection date to submit an appeal to POPLA. Your POPLA appeal, only as the Keeper, should include the fact that the NtK is not fully compliant with ALL the requirements of PoFA.

Paragraph 9(2)(e) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) states that the NtK must specify the name of the creditor who is entitled to recover the parking charge. This is a strict requirement, and failure to comply renders the NtK invalid under PoFA for keeper liability purposes.

The notice states that "payment of the charge amount is required when parked on our client’s property". However, it does not explicitly identify who the "creditor" is. Simply stating "our client" or referring to the parking company itself is not sufficient. PoFA requires the explicit naming of the creditor so the recipient knows exactly who is owed the alleged debt.

If the NtK does not clearly identify the creditor, it fails to meet the requirement under Paragraph 9(2)(e). This omission makes the NtK non-compliant with PoFA, meaning the parking company cannot hold the registered keeper liable for the charge.

Also, under Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) and Paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), the Notice to Keeper (NtK) must include a specific invitation to the keeper to pay the charge. This requirement serves to ensure that the keeper understands their liability and has a clear course of action.

They cannot simply rely on the fact that the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) is addressed to the Keeper to satisfy Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) of Schedule 4 of PoFA. The law explicitly requires a clear and specific invitation for the keeper to either:

• Pay the parking charge, or
• Provide the name and address of the driver (if the keeper was not the driver).

This is not an "implied" requirement; it must be explicitly stated. Merely inferring that the keeper is invited to pay because the notice is addressed to them does not meet the strict wording requirements of PoFA.

PoFA compliance requires specific wording. The law’s intention is to make the responsibilities of the Keeper clear and unambiguous. Phrases like "you are invited to pay this parking charge" or "you are required to do X, Y, Z" are examples of wording that PoFA expects.

If the notice only says, for example, "the charge must be paid" or "payment is required" without directly inviting the keeper to pay, this is insufficient under PoFA. The wording must link the keeper directly to the payment obligation in an unambiguous way.

The parking company cannot claim keeper liability under PoFA if they fail to meet the explicit requirements of 9(2)(e)(i). This is a valid appeal (and defence) point, as courts and independent adjudicators should not rely on implied obligations instead of explicit compliance with statutory requirements.

You should also put the operator to strict proof that they have a valid contract flowing from the landowner that permits them to issue PCNs at the location. A statement that they hold a contract is not sufficient and you need evidence of a valid contract.

Why did the driver not realise that they had to purchase a permit to stay at the location? Was the signage sufficiently prominent and legible or not? That is also a valid appeal point. Have a read of the new Single Code of Practice (SCoP) and v9 of the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) about signs and how they must be set out.

Put together something that you think you would like to send and we will review and make any constructive criticism as necessary.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

docklander

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2024, 02:12:41 pm »
So this is my 1st draft appeal:

I am writing to appeal correspondence received from GroupNexus, reference XXX.

Paragraph 9(2)(e) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) states that the Notice to Keeper (NtK) must specify the name of the creditor who is entitled to recover the parking charge. This is a strict requirement, and failure to comply renders the NtK invalid under PoFA for keeper liability purposes.

The notice states that "payment of the charge amount is required when parked on our client’s property". However, it does not explicitly identify who the "creditor" is. Simply stating "our client" or referring to the parking company itself is not sufficient. PoFA requires the explicit naming of the creditor so the recipient knows exactly who is owed the alleged debt.

If the NtK does not clearly identify the creditor, it fails to meet the requirement under Paragraph 9(2)(e). This omission makes the NtK non-compliant with PoFA, meaning the parking company cannot hold the registered keeper liable for the charge.

Also, under Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) and Paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), the Notice to Keeper (NtK) must include a specific invitation to the keeper to pay the charge. This requirement serves to ensure that the keeper understands their liability and has a clear course of action.

They cannot simply rely on the fact that the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) is addressed to the Keeper to satisfy Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) of Schedule 4 of PoFA. The law explicitly requires a clear and specific invitation for the keeper to either:

• Pay the parking charge, or
• Provide the name and address of the driver (if the keeper was not the driver).

This is not an "implied" requirement; it must be explicitly stated. Merely inferring that the keeper is invited to pay because the notice is addressed to them does not meet the strict wording requirements of PoFA.

PoFA compliance requires specific wording. The law’s intention is to make the responsibilities of the Keeper clear and unambiguous. Phrases like "you are invited to pay this parking charge" or "you are required to do X, Y, Z" are examples of wording that PoFA expects.

If the notice only says, for example, "the charge must be paid" or "payment is required" without directly inviting the keeper to pay, this is insufficient under PoFA. The wording must link the keeper directly to the payment obligation in an unambiguous way.

The parking company cannot claim keeper liability under PoFA if they fail to meet the explicit requirements of 9(2)(e)(i). This is a valid appeal (and defence) point, as courts and independent adjudicators should not rely on implied obligations instead of explicit compliance with statutory requirements.

GroupNexus has failed to show a valid contract flowing from the landowner that permits them to issue PCNs at this location.

With the above in mind, I respectfully request you uphold my appeal and void this matter.

docklander

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2024, 06:39:30 pm »
Any advice on the above post would be much appreciated...

b789

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2024, 12:31:16 pm »
What you have shown is good but you need to remember that you are trying to lead the POPLA assessor by the nose through each point. What you have shown covers the PoFA failures which means that they cannot hold you liable as the Keeper.

You should always add as many points to a POPLA appeal as you only need to win on a single point and the operator has to rebut each of your points. You should also include other points about the signage and the operators contract with the landowner. With a Group Nexus PCN, always include the landowner contract validity.

Search for other POPLA appeals on here to get a flavour of what you need to add to what you already have.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

docklander

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2025, 11:47:35 am »
I have heard from POPLA that my appeal should be heard within 6 to 8 weeks from today. I will update you in due course.