Author Topic: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?  (Read 255 times)

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docklander

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Used Millwall Dock for a car photo shoot on 06 October.

Entered 14:20, left 15:16.

I never left the car and have photos from the shoot to prove the shoot happened.

Does this count as "parking"? Should I appeal?

Any help greatly appreciated.

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b789

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2024, 05:11:52 pm »
Not enough info. Read this and then post images of the Notice to Keeper (NtK) and give a bit more background detail and why you think that being there on a "photo shoot" is not parking unless it was on behalf of the landowner or their agent.

READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

docklander

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2024, 06:10:17 pm »
Looks like I should use this defence?:

Subject: Formal Appeal – PCN Ref No. [Insert Reference Number]
Registered Keeper of Vehicle: [Registration Number]

This is a formal appeal for the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued to me as the registered keeper of the vehicle. Group Nexus has failed to comply with the statutory requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012, and as such, I am not liable for the charge. I will outline the key failures below:

1. Incorrect Assumption of Ownership:

In the Notice to Keeper (NtK), Group Nexus has relied on PoFA 9(2)(f) and incorrectly stated:

"We have the right to recover any unpaid part of the Parking Charge from you, the vehicle’s owner, under Paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012..."

This is a clear breach of PoFA. The law allows for recovery of unpaid parking charges from the registered keeper, not the owner, unless the conditions outlined in PoFA Schedule 4 are met. Moreover, the V5C Registration Certificate explicitly states on its front page that it is not proof of ownership. Group Nexus has therefore made an incorrect assumption that the registered keeper is automatically the owner, which is both factually and legally incorrect, resulting in a breach of the Act.

2. Breach of the BPA Code of Practice:

The BPA Code of Practice (CoP) also requires that operators follow the legal framework (PoFA) and use clear, unambiguous language in their communication with the registered keeper. By using "owner" instead of "registered keeper" or "driver," Group Nexus has breached Section 21 of the BPA CoP, which requires that any Notice to Keeper sent to the registered keeper must comply with PoFA 2012 if they intend to hold me liable.

3. Failure to Include an Invitation to Pay [PoFA 9(2)(e)(i)]:

The NtK fails to comply with Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) of PoFA, which requires the NtK to include an explicit invitation for the keeper to either pay the charge or, if they were not the driver, to provide the name and address of the driver. Group Nexus has omitted this key requirement. Without such an invitation, the NtK is non-compliant, and therefore, liability cannot be transferred from the driver to me, the registered keeper.

4. No Keeper Liability:

Since Group Nexus has failed to fully comply with the requirements of PoFA Schedule 4, there can be no keeper liability in this case. As the registered keeper, I am under no legal obligation to provide the identity of the driver to an unregulated private company and I decline to do so.

Expectation of Cancellation or POPLA Code:

Please do NOT try the usual Group Nexus trick of asking for driver details in order to get around the fact your NtK does not comply with PoFA. As there is no keeper liability, therefore, liability cannot flow from the driver to me, the keeper, and so, is an automatic win at POPLA. Please cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code at which point you will auto withdraw.

b789

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2024, 07:09:48 pm »
Without seeing the NtK, we have no idea whether what you are suggesting is even relevant.

Which PPC?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

DWMB2

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2024, 10:44:33 pm »
Indeed - we can't comment on whether a proposed appeal is suitable, without seeing the parking charge notice it is appealing.

docklander

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2024, 09:46:24 am »
Here is the text scanned from the letter:

Dear Sir/Madam. 
When your vehicle remained at this location, our cameras recorded it arriving and leaving  at the dates and times stated on the right hand side. This car park is for permit holders  only and- as we have no record of an elecironic permit being registered for your-vehicie,  having checked the vehicle details with Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA), we  are writing to you because you were the registered keeper at the time of parking. 
In accordance with the Terms and Conditions clearly and prominently displayed and  agreed to when your vehicle parked on our Client's property, the payment of the Charge  amount is required within 28 days from the date of this Charge. We will accept the  reduced sum if payment is received within 14 days. 
You are notified under paragraph 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act  2012 that the driver of the vehicle is required to pay this Parking Charge in full. As we do  not know the driver's name or current postal address, if you were not the driver at the  time, you should tell us the name and current postal address of the driver and pass this  to them. Once this information is received, we will pursue the driver. 
You are advised that if, after a period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on  which the Charge is given (which is presumed to be the second working day after the  Date Issued) the Parking Charge has not been paid in full and we do not know both the  name and current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any unpaid part of  the Parking Charge from you. This Charge is given to you under Paragraph 9(2)(f) of  Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and is subject to our complying with  the applicable conditions under Schedule 4 of that Act. 
Should you provide an incorrect address for service, we may pursue you for any Parking  Charge amount that remains unpaid Should you identify someone who denies they were  the driver, we may pursue you for any Parking Charge amount that remains unpaid.  Failure to pay the full amount within 28 days may result in the proceeding of debt  recovery action and/or issuing court proceedings against you. Additional costs may be  incurred. 
If the vehicle was hired, please provide a signed statement confirming the hirer's name  and address and a copy of the hire agreement 
CP Plus Ltd. T/A GroupNexus  Operating in accordance with the British Parking Association's Code of Practice.  PLEASE SEE OVERLEAF FOR DETAILS ON HOW TO PAY OR APPEAL.  REGISTERED OFFICE

b789

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2024, 10:51:32 am »
Either post a photo of the Notice to Keeper (NtK) or else provide all the dates and times showing on the NtK. Show us exactly how the address of the location is shown on the NtK.

What do the signs say at the car park? Why did the driver think they were exempt from any permit requirements? Are you sure that Group Nexus have a valid contract flowing from the landowner that permits them to issue Parking Charge Notices (PCN) at the location?

If you want help and advice, please provide the requested information. Nobody pays GroupNexus if they are getting advice here.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

docklander

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2024, 12:08:11 pm »
So the location says " Millwall Dock"

Arrived 06/10/2024 14:20

Departed 06/10/2024 15:16

Duration 0hrs 55mins

Are you sure that Group Nexus have a valid contract flowing from the landowner that permits them to issue Parking Charge Notices (PCN) at the location? Not sure how I would verify this?


b789

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2024, 12:46:39 pm »
You can only verify if they have a valid contract by putting them to strict proof that they do.

Please, just post pictures of the NtK so we can review it. You are not helping by failing to provide the visual evidence we require.

I still don't know exactly where this alleged contravention took place. Entering Millwall Dock car park into Google maps shows at least 5 different car parks.

You haven't answered this earlier question either:

What do the signs say at the car park? Why did the driver think they were exempt from any permit requirements?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

DWMB2

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2024, 12:46:51 pm »
Is there a reason you can't just show us the actual document?

docklander

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2024, 01:12:17 pm »
I didnt want to clog up the site or faff with downloads but will do now.

docklander

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docklander

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2024, 01:32:43 pm »
What do the signs say at the car park? Not sure, sorry.

Why did the driver think they were exempt from any permit requirements? Because they were not parking and leaving the vehicle unattended

b789

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2024, 01:49:18 pm »
What do the signs say at the car park? Not sure, sorry.

The signs are what form the "contract" that the driver is alleged to have breached. It doesn't matter whether the driver bothered to read them or not. It is a contract formed by conduct.

Why did the driver think they were exempt from any permit requirements? Because they were not parking and leaving the vehicle unattended

The contract will say something such as "by remaining on the private property the driver agrees..." Just because the vehicle was not left unattended does not mean that it wasn't allowed to remain on private property.

GroupNexus will not accept any appeal but you will be able to try and appeal to POPLA after the initial rejection although, it is also very unlikely that POPLA will be successful either. The most likely way this will be concluded is if it goes to court.

For now, simply appeal as the keeper only with the following:

Quote
This is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given. Please do NOT try the usual Group Nexus trick of asking for driver details in order to get around the fact your NtK does not fully comply with PoFA. As there is no keeper liability, therefore, liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and so, is an automatic win at POPLA. Please cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code at which point you will auto withdraw.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

docklander

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Re: Used Millwall Dock for a photo shoot, Group Nexus, but was I parked?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2024, 02:33:17 pm »
On the appeal page, which option as I have to choose one:

Tick here to confirm that you were the driver and that the PCN you have received contains the correct information
Tick here to confirm that you were not the driver or that the PCN you have received contains incorrect information