Author Topic: UKPC Parking PCN – Overstay – Gallions Reach Shopping Park, Beckton  (Read 1392 times)

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Upon entering the car park, the driver found a space, parked up, and visited one of the establishments, with receipts showing that they were indeed visiting the stores within the retail park. The driver was unaware of any time limits for parking and exceeded the maximum time limit according to the PCN. On 23rd October, I, the registered keeper, received a PCN through the post. After receiving this I have checked on Google Maps and it does not appear anywhere to be signage indicating the maximum time (viewGoogle Street View) although I see the date for the street view is quite a while ago. Also, from looking at other posts the beginning of the 28 day period beginning the day after receiving the letter is dated (although
I received it a few days after this if it is relevant on the 26th) does not seem inline with the required 2 working days after, unless I am mistaken. The letter is attached or can be viewed here https://imgur.com/a/0J2YUvP. Would greatly appreciate any help, and thank you in advance.

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Re: UKPC Parking PCN – Overstay – Gallions Reach Shopping Park, Beckton
« Reply #1 on: »
Do you have any photos pf the signage inside the car park?

Re: UKPC Parking PCN – Overstay – Gallions Reach Shopping Park, Beckton
« Reply #2 on: »
You should always try Plan A first. Find out who the landowner or their managing agent of the retail park is. If there's an advertising plinth near the entrance, usually at the bottom of that will be the managing agents contact details. You need to contact them and explain that the driver was not aware of any restrictions due to poor signage. Evidence that money was spent and that being a patron of businesses at the location shouldn't come with an added £100 invoice from an unregulated private parking company.

You should also complain to the businesses where money was spent and tell them that you, your family and friends will not be coming back for future business if this PCN isn't cancelled. If they wonder why their footfall decreases, they can thank the unregulated private parking company and whoever contracted them.

You can appeal to UKPC and have that rejected, which will get you a POPLA code for a secondary appeal, where you have a slightly better chance of success. POPLA is not independent and is looking out for its paymasters interests, so don't be surprised if that appeal fails too.

No one who is receiving advice on here pays a penny to UKPC. If the POPLA appeal fails, this will eventually end up being a debt claim in the ultimate dispute resolution service, the small claims track of the county court. The claim will be issued by DCB Legal and, as long as it is defended with any old defence, it will eventually be discontinued. I say this willower 99% certainty.

The Notice to Keeper (NtK) is PoFA compliant so not "get out of jail" card there. As you mention, signage is always the way to go with any UKPC PCN. Their signs are terrible. However, you have to convince the POPLA assessor why.

For now, simply appeal to UKPC as the Keeper with the following whilst you carry on with Plan A:

Quote
I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

Any signs at the location do not comply with the requirements of PoFA 2012 2(3)(b)(ii) as they do not adequately bring to the notice of the driver the charge for breach if any terms,

Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegations and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

I suggest you cancel the PCN or issue me with a POPLA code.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2024, 03:03:08 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: UKPC Parking PCN – Overstay – Gallions Reach Shopping Park, Beckton
« Reply #3 on: »
Thank you for you reply. I've obtained some pictures of the signs around the car park, please let me know whether this would constitute the proper signage:

Sign at the entrance barriers into the car park:
https://imgur.com/a/HzkiGVE

Close up of the entrance sign:
https://imgur.com/a/HzkiGVE

Around the car park there are signs at the edges of the park both like the one at the entrance and some specifying the charges:
https://imgur.com/a/NThnea8

Signs are more on the pavement near the shops, and a lot of the car park is sparse of signs:
https://imgur.com/a/Cn2QGXa

Copy of the back of the PCN if relevant:
https://imgur.com/a/ZckBGeE

Thank you again for all of your help

Re: UKPC Parking PCN – Overstay – Gallions Reach Shopping Park, Beckton
« Reply #4 on: »
Continue with Plan A for now.

No one pays UKPC a penny if they’re here getting advice. As already mentioned earlier, if Plan A doesn’t work and Plan B and Plan C appeals don’t work, Plan D will work with over 99% certainty.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: UKPC Parking PCN – Overstay – Gallions Reach Shopping Park, Beckton
« Reply #5 on: »
One quick observation is the £100 is in small lettering and should be more predominant.

Re: UKPC Parking PCN – Overstay – Gallions Reach Shopping Park, Beckton
« Reply #6 on: »
One quick observation is the £100 is in small lettering and should be more predominant.
Yes, you are correct. However, you will never get to argue that point except at POPLA and we all know where their bias lies. If it gets as far as a court claim, it will never get to a hearing and will be discontinued.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: UKPC Parking PCN – Overstay – Gallions Reach Shopping Park, Beckton
« Reply #7 on: »
Thank you again for your help. I tried options A and B but no luck, I will now raise an appeal with UKPC. What should I include in my appeal and what should the justification I put for the appeal, from the pictures I posted above it looks like some signs do contain the charges. And what will be the eventual reason that you believe it won't go to a hearing, because the claim is invalid or there is some defense, or that it's not worth it for them to pursue it beyond there.Thanks

Re: UKPC Parking PCN – Overstay – Gallions Reach Shopping Park, Beckton
« Reply #8 on: »
Errr... plan B was your appeal to UKPC. I'm assuming you mean that your Plan B appeal to UKPC was rejected and you now have a POPLA code and you are instigating Plan C appeal.

Please show us the rejection letter from UKPC. Your POPLA appeal can only be on points of law or breaches of the Code of Practice.

...what should the justification I put for the appeal, from the pictures I posted above it looks like some signs do contain the charges.

Does this answer your question?



It will never get to a hearing because they can't be bothered doing all the work necessary to try and win it. Their modus operandi is to try and scare you into paying up out of ignorance and gullibility.

They issue hundreds of thousands of these claims every year. The few that are here and on MSE receiving advice and do not capitulate, are not worth it for them and if you have not given in and paid up by the time they have to pay the trial fee, they will discontinue.

There are plenty of other low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree out there to make it extremely profitable for them. The county court claim is a "loss leader" for them,
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: UKPC Parking PCN – Overstay – Gallions Reach Shopping Park, Beckton
« Reply #9 on: »
Sorry, I meant plan B, I was out of the country and did not have a chance to appeal to UKPC. Is it just the above then that I should include to the appeal to UKPC.

Re: UKPC Parking PCN – Overstay – Gallions Reach Shopping Park, Beckton
« Reply #10 on: »
I already gave you the content for your Plan B appeal to UKPC.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: UKPC Parking PCN – Overstay – Gallions Reach Shopping Park, Beckton
« Reply #11 on: »
Hello again,
UKPC has finally responded to the appeal. Thank you again for your help in drafting the original appeal letter. Unsurprisingly, they have not accepted the appeal, although they are asking again to provide driver details or proof of purchases. I have attached the letter. Is there any issue with submitting receipts from the vehicle driver at the time while declining to share the driver's informations? Is this some type of way to catch you out? Otherwise, I can just go ahead and decline to provide the drivers details, and ask to be issued with a POPLA code. Thank you in advance.

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Re: UKPC Parking PCN – Overstay – Gallions Reach Shopping Park, Beckton
« Reply #12 on: »
Really with the following:

Quote
Re: Parking Charge Reference [Insert Reference Number]

Dear UKPC Appeals Department,

I refer to your recent correspondence regarding the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

1. Request for Driver Information:

As the registered keeper of the vehicle, I am under no obligation to disclose the identity of the driver. Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) sets out the criteria you must meet to hold me, as the registered keeper, liable. I dispute that you have met the strict requirements of Schedule 4, including but not limited to adequately bringing the terms of the alleged contract to the attention of the driver.

2. Signage Compliance:

Your assertion that signage complies with regulations is unsubstantiated. I reiterate my request for:

• A close-up photograph of the signage, clearly showing the terms and conditions, taken on the date in question.

• Evidence of the signage's location within the car park, including a site map to demonstrate that the signage is numerous and appropriately placed.

3. Clarity of Terms:

While you reference motorists' obligations to observe signs on public roads, this analogy is flawed. Unlike public road signage, which follows strict and standardised guidelines (The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions), private parking signage often varies and lacks standardisation. Furthermore, private signage must comply with the IPC or BPA Codes of Practice.

4. Proof of Purchases:

Your request for proof of purchases is irrelevant. Parking terms must be clearly conveyed at the time of entry, and compliance cannot be retroactively validated by receipts or bank statements.

5. Commercially Sensitive Contract:

I understand that you claim the landowner agreement is "commercially sensitive." However, if this matter proceeds to court, I will request this document through a court order to evidence your authority to issue charges on this land. Your refusal to provide this now does not comply with the principle of transparency.

6. Next Steps:

Unless you cancel this PCN, I require:

• A POPLA verification code, as required under the BPA Code of Practice.

• Confirmation of the legal basis under which you believe this PCN is enforceable, particularly given the inadequate signage and lack of evidence provided so far.

Failure to address these points adequately will leave me no choice but to escalate this matter through POPLA and, if necessary, further legal channels if you persist in progressing this matter further.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Name]
Registered Keeper of the Vehicle
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: UKPC Parking PCN – Overstay – Gallions Reach Shopping Park, Beckton
« Reply #13 on: »
Thank you very much, B789, for your response and help so far. Just before I respond to UKPC, is there any harm in attaching proof of purchases at the venue if they are readily available to me, or should I go ahead and just respond as is?

Re: UKPC Parking PCN – Overstay – Gallions Reach Shopping Park, Beckton
« Reply #14 on: »
Thank you very much, B789, for your response and help so far. Just before I respond to UKPC, is there any harm in attaching proof of purchases at the venue if they are readily available to me, or should I go ahead and just respond as is?

Do not overthink this. Do not try and embellish it with extraneous details. You are not dealing with a company that has a customer service ethos or that has any interest in whether you were a customer or not.

UKPC are bottom dwelling vermin operating on the edge of lawful adherence to their own ATAs Code of Practice. They are not entitled to your personal information or receipts. They are not relevant to their failures to comply with the law.

So, in answer to your question... whilst it would not harm your position, it certainly will not enhance it. My advice is to not provide any receipts and submit the reply I have given you as is.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain