Author Topic: UKPC, not parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space, Metrocentre Gateshead  (Read 262 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Fowler1981

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The driver received this yesterday through the post (22nd October) from UKPC for 'not parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space' at the Metrocentre in Gateshead. The 'Parking Charge Date' is 10th October and the letter is dated 18th October. This is a hire van.

The driver entered the car park about 6pm ish and left about 8:30pm ish and they parked like this because the van would not fit in any of the bays and because it's a hire van did not want to get it damaged with other people banging it with their doors etc so tried to find a space well away from the entrance and away from anyone, however, clearly in some of the photo's other cars ended up parking at that end as well.

The driver went into the Metrocentre to do some shopping and get some food.

Any help from you guys is appreciated, even if it isn't what the driver wants to hear. Thanks

GSV: https://www.instantstreetview.com/@54.95628,-1.671591,100.68h,-6.78p,1z,js5D64LMuUhohqVAFO3Pkw









Share on Facebook Share on Twitter


DWMB2

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
  • Karma: +66/-1
    • View Profile
'not parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space'
We sometimes see parking companies issuing 'outside of bay markings' tickets for marginal infringements, but they're not wrong here  ;D

Anyway, as this is a hire van, you've almost certainly got a technical 'get out of jail' card. Did UKPC send you any other documents alongside the Notice to Hirer? In particular:
  • a copy of the hire agreement
  • a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement

If they did not, you could appeal as the hirer (not identifying who was driving anywhere on the online form, choosing only options for 'hirer'), along the lines of the below:

Dear Sirs,

I have received your Notice to Hirer [(PCN number)] for Vehicle Registration Mark [VRM]. I am appealing as the hirer of this vehicle. There is no obligation for me to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

To hold me liable for the charge as the hirer of the vehicle, you must meet the conditions specified in Paragraph 14 of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“the Act”). I note from your correspondence that you have failed to meet these conditions. These failures include (but are not limited to):

  • A failure to serve a Notice to Hirer containing all the information required by 14(5) of the Act.
  • A failure to include the additional documents mentioned by 13(2) of the Act.

As a result of this, you are unable to recover the charge from me, the hirer. As I do not have liability for this charge, I am unable to help you further with this matter. I therefore look forward to your confirmation that the charge has been cancelled. If you do not cancel, you must issue me with a POPLA code.

Yours faithfully,
Away 10/01/25 - 18/01/25 - I will have limited forum access

Posting for the first time? READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide | House Rules

Useful Links (for private parking charges):
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4 | Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice
Agree Agree x 1 View List

DWMB2

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
  • Karma: +66/-1
    • View Profile
Also, it is the hirer who received the notice through the post.
Away 10/01/25 - 18/01/25 - I will have limited forum access

Posting for the first time? READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide | House Rules

Useful Links (for private parking charges):
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4 | Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice

Fowler1981

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Yes, it was the hirer that received the notice and that one page (front and back) is all that was received.

b789

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3140
  • Karma: +133/-4
    • View Profile
    • GullibleTree
Golden ticket... As long as the Hirer does not identify the driver. However, UKPC will reject the appeal but should win at POPLA.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

DWMB2

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
  • Karma: +66/-1
    • View Profile
As expected - in which case an appeal with the wording in my other reply is a good first step.

As b789 notes they might reject (because they can), but POPLA should be more successful.
Away 10/01/25 - 18/01/25 - I will have limited forum access

Posting for the first time? READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide | House Rules

Useful Links (for private parking charges):
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4 | Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Fowler1981

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The options for 'appeal reason' are:

Blue Badge Holder
Working on site
Genuine customer
Other

So 'other' has been selected and then 'Relationship to vehicle' has to be answered with the only options being:

Driver
Registered keeper
Driver and registered keeper

So what should be selected here?

DWMB2

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
  • Karma: +66/-1
    • View Profile
Under 'appeal reason' put 'Other'

If there's no option for 'hirer' (rather daft when they issue notices to hirers...) then select 'registered keeper'. The appeal I have suggested makes clear you are the hirer.

For belt and braces you could maybe include a line right at the start that says "As your appeal form does not include an option for 'hirer' I was forced to select 'Registered Keeper', however you should note I am appealing in my capacity as the hirer"
Away 10/01/25 - 18/01/25 - I will have limited forum access

Posting for the first time? READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide | House Rules

Useful Links (for private parking charges):
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4 | Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Fowler1981

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
If the appeal is won is the £35 fee from Enterprise refunded or is that lost regardless?

DWMB2

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
  • Karma: +66/-1
    • View Profile
Any fee charged by Enterprise is a separate matter. To advise on that, we'd need to see the wording of your contract with them.
Away 10/01/25 - 18/01/25 - I will have limited forum access

Posting for the first time? READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide | House Rules

Useful Links (for private parking charges):
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4 | Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice

Fowler1981

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
A reply from UKPC has now been received. What would be the next step please?


b789

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3140
  • Karma: +133/-4
    • View Profile
    • GullibleTree
It's laughable how they are fishing for information they now need because of their own incompetence. You can simply ignore that letter and wait for their appeal rejection and a POPLA code or you could have a bit of fun with them and respond with the following, which actually gives them the chance to save their POPLA fee:

Quote
Dear Appeals Department,

Thank you for your letter dated 14 November 2024 regarding Parking Charge Reference [Reference]. Unless there is a competent adult there that can assist you, I will explain why I will not be acceding to your request for the "full name and address of the driver." Asking for information that I am under no legal obligation to provide is, to put it kindly, ambitious.

As I already pointed out in my original appeal, I am appealing as the Hirer of the vehicle, and Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 does not require me to identify the driver. Attempting to hold me liable without UKPC fully complying with all the requirements of Paragraph 14 of Schedule 4 says a lot about what appears to be gross incompetence by your company. You might want to review the legislation to avoid similar errors in future.

Your failure to meet the statutory requirements, including the omission of key information and documents specified under Paragraphs 13(2) and 14(5), means that liability for this charge cannot be transferred to me as the Hirer. It seems you are now fishing for information in an attempt to correct these oversights. Sadly, for you, this isn't how the law works.

Additionally, should you choose to reject this appeal, you will be doing nothing more than confirming your own incompetence. I will immediately appeal to POPLA, where you have absolutely no chance of success due to your repeated failures to comply with the law. All you will achieve is wasting your money on the POPLA fee in the process.

I suggest that you consider passing this response to an adult who can actually deal with it properly and perhaps even comprehend why you have no hope at POPLA. Spouting Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act is all very well, but it means absolutely nothing if you have not complied with all the statutory requirements. I recommend researching Paragraphs 13 and 14, doing your homework, and understanding why your Notice to Hirer is not compliant. Until then, your continued insistence on pursuing this matter borders on comedic and says a lot about the levels of intellect within UKPC.

Since the outcome here is obvious, I suggest saving us both time and effort by cancelling this parking charge immediately. Should the intellectual malnourishment prevail and you refuse, I look forward to receiving a POPLA code so an independent appeals assessor can confirm what you clearly cannot grasp.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Name]
« Last Edit: November 19, 2024, 12:25:38 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Fowler1981

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Haha, I’ll have that sent them as the reply then 🤣

Fowler1981

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
They have taken some time but finally responded with:

Thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to parking charge reference *************.

To assist us in making a decision regarding your appeal, please confirm the full name and address of the driver to our Appeals Department within seven days of the date of this letter.

Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 discusses the recovery of unpaid parking charges. It allows parking operators to hold the registered keeper liable to pay unpaid parking charges if the operator has not been provided the name and a serviceable address of the driver.

This information may be confirmed by submitting another appeal on our website at www.ukpcappeals.co.uk, or by post to the address overleaf. Please ensure that if writing to us by post that you include the parking charge reference number and vehicle registration.

Failure to provide this information will give us no alternative other than to make our final decision based on the previous information received. At this stage a POPLA verification code will be provided.

The parking charge has been placed on hold whilst under appeal and may be settled in full at the current PCN rate of £60.00.

Fowler1981

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
In fact, I've just noticed it's exactly the same as their previous response