Author Topic: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London  (Read 35 times)

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LondonLady

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Hello,

Hope you are all ok.

Today I received a Parking Charge Notice from UKCPM with reason "No Parking Outside Of A Designated Area" for the housing estate where I live.


The driver came to visit me and drop off some food and parked in the marked 'Drop Off Zone' bay outside my home.
The housing association has a sign up stating "30 minutes parking for loading and unloading only".
I don't remember how long the driver spent inside my home.

I am the registered keeper.

1. The Parking Charge Letter;
Page 1


There are 3 different times; letter says 21:59, top photo says 21:32:46 and bottom photo says 21:42:50.

Page 2


2. The 'Drop Off Zone' outside my home the driver parked in;


3. Housing Association notice for 'loading/unloading';


4. CPM Housing Estate Signage;



Any advice/help against this would be great.

Thank you.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2025, 09:41:07 pm by LondonLady »

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b789

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Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2025, 10:11:57 am »
No contract was formed as the Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not state a period of parking which also means that the Keeper cannot be liable for the charge as long as the drivers identity is revealed, inadvertently or otherwise.

Additionally, you have shown the sign that states that 30 minutes is allowed for loading and unloading. That contradicts anything in the contractual signs.

As the driver was visiting/loading/unloading you, the tenant/leaseholder, what does your lease/tenancy agreement say about parking and displaying permits? What it doesn't say about parking is equally important.

This can be fought all the way to court if necessary. However, I suggest you approach "Hyde" who I presume are something to do with the landlord or management company, as it is likely they are the party who have contracted CPM and can get the PCN cancelled. That is known as Plan A.

Any appeals are going to be unsuccessful which is why, if Plan A does not work, it will end up as a court claim.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

LondonLady

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Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2025, 04:58:43 pm »
No contract was formed as the Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not state a period of parking which also means that the Keeper cannot be liable for the charge as long as the drivers identity is revealed, inadvertently or otherwise.

Additionally, you have shown the sign that states that 30 minutes is allowed for loading and unloading. That contradicts anything in the contractual signs.

As the driver was visiting/loading/unloading you, the tenant/leaseholder, what does your lease/tenancy agreement say about parking and displaying permits? What it doesn't say about parking is equally important.

This can be fought all the way to court if necessary. However, I suggest you approach "Hyde" who I presume are something to do with the landlord or management company, as it is likely they are the party who have contracted CPM and can get the PCN cancelled. That is known as Plan A.

Any appeals are going to be unsuccessful which is why, if Plan A does not work, it will end up as a court claim.
Thank you for your reply and reassurance.

On the estate there are a couple of those 'drop off' bays and I think any nearby noticeboards have that 30 minute parking sign.

All my tenancy agreement says about parking is not to park 'indiscriminately' so as to cause a nuisance, cause obstruction, use the estate roads for repairs or park un-taxed/roadworthy vehicles;


Hyde Housing is the landowner/landlord and apparently they contracted UKCPM for free, to manage the estate parking and they keep parking permit revenues in return for a 'donation' to Hyde who operate as a not-for-profit outfit (hardly true).
Only problem with approaching Hyde is that they specialise in incompetence and I know the sequence will be something like; what sign allowing 30 mins parking? - send them the picture - response we're not aware of that - after weeks of chasing them they'll just either say; that doesn't exist, whoever arranged/agreed that has left or it's been changed and should have been removed.
I will approach the caretaker who has been here for years and ask about it - fingers crossed for Plan A.

While I feel this very wrong the thought of court makes me anxious as I'm not in the best in healthy/mobile. Would it be the keeper/driver or both that would need to go to the court case?

Thanks




DWMB2

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Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2025, 05:12:41 pm »
Quote
top photo says 21:32:46 and bottom photo says 21:42:50.
They are both 21:32, as far as I can see, suggesting they were taken just 4 seconds apart.

If you log onto the PCM online portal, are any other photos available? If so, what time stamps do these show?

There is persuasive case law on this point - if the only photos they have are taken 4 seconds apart, then as b789 says they have not stated the period of parking (required for keeper liability), but further, more basically, their evidence would not seem to show that any alleged contract has been breached if they only have 2 photos taken 4 seconds apart.

Quote
Would it be the keeper/driver or both that would need to go to the court case?
Quote
The keeper unless you identify the driver (doing so would mean PCM pursue them instead) - doing this would reduce the number of defence arguments to be made, as they couldn't use the arguments around keeper liability, but there would still seem to be a defence there.

b789

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Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2025, 05:26:23 pm »
Even if this were to ever escalate into a court claim, I seriously doubt it would ever reach a hearing. Even if it ever did, it is nothing other than be fearful of. Far too many people have little understanding of the civil court system (as opposed to the criminal system). The County Court is the ultimate dispute resolution service.

Just to try and allay your fears, here is a short video that explains what happens in a hearing for a debt dispute in court:

https://youtu.be/n93eoaxhzpU?feature=shared

Your tenancy agreement is a legal contract, and you have supremacy of contract over the land where you reside and park. From what you have shown us there is no clause in your tenancy that introduces UKCPM, requires you to display a permit, or imposes time restrictions like "30 minutes free." That means UKCPM has no legal basis to issue parking charges — they’re not a party to your contract, and they cannot unilaterally impose new terms.

Unless Hyde Housing has formally varied your lease in accordance with the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, particularly Section 37 (which requires consultation and a Tribunal), no new contractual obligations can be imposed — especially not by a third party like UKCPM.

What UKCPM are doing amounts to issuing speculative invoices for alleged breaches of a contract you never entered into. Their “contract” signage has no effect on tenants who already have a lease that governs their rights to use the estate, including parking areas. UKCPM’s actions are legally baseless where there is no agreement with you, and they have no right to override your lease.

You should write to Hyde Housing and make it crystal clear that:

• You do not accept UKCPM's authority, as it contradicts your tenancy rights;
• Hyde is vicariously liable for the actions of UKCPM, their appointed agent;
• If you suffer loss, distress, or legal escalation due to UKCPM’s unlawful actions, you will hold Hyde and UKCPM jointly and severally liable.

Let them know that Hyde’s failure to control or properly instruct their agents could result in a formal complaint to the Housing Ombudsman and potential legal action for breach of your tenancy rights and unlawful interference with quiet enjoyment.

Also, gather evidence:

• Take a photo of any “30 minutes free parking” sign to show UKCPM’s own signage contradicts their claim;
• Speak to the caretaker, as planned, to confirm the history and intended use of the drop-off bays.

You have every right to challenge this. Your lease comes first, and neither UKCPM nor Hyde can rewrite it without following proper legal procedures.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

LondonLady

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Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2025, 05:48:39 pm »
Quote
top photo says 21:32:46 and bottom photo says 21:42:50.
They are both 21:32, as far as I can see, suggesting they were taken just 4 seconds apart.

If you log onto the PCM online portal, are any other photos available? If so, what time stamps do these show?

There is persuasive case law on this point - if the only photos they have are taken 4 seconds apart, then as b789 says they have not stated the period of parking (required for keeper liability), but further, more basically, their evidence would not seem to show that any alleged contract has been breached if they only have 2 photos taken 4 seconds apart.

Quote
Would it be the keeper/driver or both that would need to go to the court case?
Quote
The keeper unless you identify the driver (doing so would mean PCM pursue them instead) - doing this would reduce the number of defence arguments to be made, as they couldn't use the arguments around keeper liability, but there would still seem to be a defence there.
Thank you for your reply.

The only place I see to login is to 'pay a charge' which takes me to www.paymyticket.co.uk and for my details there are 10 pictures with the following date/times; (duplicates)

2025-04-06 21:32:46 (front of car - bit fuzzy)
2025-04-06 21:33:12 (left rear of car)
2025-04-06 21:33:18 (dash through windscreen)
2025-04-06 21:36:42 (picture of CPM sign on a property away from where the car was parked - there are 2 signs within 10m of that bay)
2025-04-06 21:32:50 (like pic 1)
2025-04-06 21:32:51 (like pic 1)
2025-04-06 21:32:52 (like pic 1 - clear)
2025-04-06 21:32:53 (like pic 1)
2025-04-06 21:33:09 (left rear of car - fuzzy)
2025-04-06 21:33:10 (left rear of car)

Earliest car pic time: 2025-04-06 21:32:46 (front of car - bit fuzzy)
Latest car pic time: 2025-04-06 21:33:18 (dash through windscreen)
Latest pic time: 2025-04-06 21:36:42 (picture of CPM sign on a property away from car location)

Car observed for total of: 32 seconds (21:33:18 - 21:32:46)

Do you need to see the pictures?

LondonLady

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Re: UKCPM - Housing Estate Loading Bay/Space - Hyde Housing - London
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2025, 06:00:06 pm »
...Also, gather evidence:

• Take a photo of any “30 minutes free parking” sign to show UKCPM’s own signage contradicts their claim;
• Speak to the caretaker, as planned, to confirm the history and intended use of the drop-off bays.

You have every right to challenge this. Your lease comes first, and neither UKCPM nor Hyde can rewrite it without following proper legal procedures.
Thank you, that's reassured me.

Previously there was a company called Wing doing parking on the estate and I think they went back to when clamping was still allowed.

I will ask some other residents I know what their leases say and if there have been any amendments as they are on top of all things landlord.

I will gather evidence & speak to the caretaker and report back.

Thanks you  :)