Author Topic: Smart Parking - Insufficient Time Paid - Debt collector letters x 2  (Read 1100 times)

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Hi
I recently received two letters from a company called ZZPS (Debt collection agency) demanding payment of £160 for their client Smart Parking.

1st letter issued 19th Dec 2024 and 2nd issued 6th Jan 2025, both arrived in the last 5 days. The parking event according to the letter took place on the 17th Sep 2022. After checking Smart parkings website is says they issued a PCN on the 3rd Oct 2022, 16days later. These are the only two letters i have received regarding the PCN, no PCN or previous letters.Not moved address.

I am unable to appeal on the website as the time has passed, which i understand as the parking event dates back to 2022. POPlA appeals require a verification number which i don't have. Reading on other posts its says not to imitate in communication with the debt collectors. Whats the best way i can appeal this and on what grounds?

I appreciate any help

thank you

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« Last Edit: January 10, 2025, 11:00:04 am by LMC11 »

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Re: Smart Parking - Insufficient Time Paid - Debt collector letters x 2
« Reply #1 on: »
Have you moved address during this time?

Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man

Re: Smart Parking - Insufficient Time Paid - Debt collector letters x 2
« Reply #3 on: »
No, haven't moved address.

Re: Smart Parking - Insufficient Time Paid - Debt collector letters x 2
« Reply #4 on: »
If you have not received any previous notice about these Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) and the first you have heard about it is a debt collector letter, then it is almost certainly the case that at the time of the alleged parking contraventions, your V5C logbook had an old address that you forgot to update after a change of address.

Many people update their drivers licence and simply assume that their V5C will also be updated. It isn't. I suggest you triple check your V5C now has your current address. If it does, check the date it was updated and compare that date to the date of the PCNs.

When you'v checked, come back and tell us the result and we can then advise further.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Smart Parking - Insufficient Time Paid - Debt collector letters x 2
« Reply #5 on: »
The log book is dated Jan 2021, when I purchased the vehicle and has not been changed since. The PCN is dated Sep 2022.

Re: Smart Parking - Insufficient Time Paid - Debt collector letters x 2
« Reply #6 on: »
OK. Not to worry. For now continue to ignore any useless debt collector letters. Never, ever contact a useless debt collector. They are powerless and cannot do anything except try and scare the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying out of ignorance and fear.

The debt collectors are not a party to the contract allegedly breached by the driver with the unregulated private parking company. We don't need to know about them and you can safely ignore them.

What you are waiting for is a Letter of Claim (LoC) which will come from (not so) Smart's bulk litigator of choice. Most likely DCB Legal. When you get the LoC, come back and we will advise on  if and how to respond before the N1SDT Claim Form arrives from the CNBC.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: Smart Parking - Insufficient Time Paid - Debt collector letters x 2
« Reply #7 on: »
Hi,
I received a letter of claim.



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Re: Smart Parking - Insufficient Time Paid - Debt collector letters x 2
« Reply #8 on: »
Respond with the following:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Re: Letter of Claim dated 14th March 2025

I refer to your Letter of Claim.

I confirm that my address for service at this time is as follows, and I request that any outdated address be erased from your records to ensure compliance with data protection obligations:

[YOUR ADDRESS]

Please note that the alleged debt is disputed, and any court proceedings will be robustly defended.

I note that the sum claimed has been increased by an excessive and unjustifiable amount, which appears contrary to the principles established by the Government, who described such practices as “extorting money from motorists.” Please refrain from sending boilerplate responses or justifications regarding this issue.

Under the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims, I require specific answers to the following questions:

1. Does the additional £60 represent what you describe as a “Debt Recovery” fee? If so, is this figure net of or inclusive of VAT? If inclusive, I trust you will explain why I, as the alleged debtor, am being asked to cover your client’s VAT liability.

2. Regarding the principal sum of the alleged Parking Charge Notice (PCN): Is this being claimed as damages for breach of contract, or will it be pleaded as consideration for a purported parking contract?

I would caution you against simply dismissing these questions with vague or boilerplate responses, as I am fully aware of the implications. By claiming that PCNs are exempt from VAT while simultaneously inflating the debt recovery element, your client – with your assistance – appears to be evading VAT obligations due to HMRC. Such mendacious conduct raises serious questions about the legality and ethics of your practices.

I strongly advise your client to cease and desist. Should this matter proceed to court, you can be assured that these issues will be brought to the court’s attention, alongside a robust defence and potentially a counterclaim for unreasonable conduct.

Yours faithfully,


[YOUR NAME]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Smart Parking - Insufficient Time Paid - Debt collector letters x 2
« Reply #9 on: »
Thank you

Hi

They have responded with the below. They did not send a letter by post but someone got my email address.

Thank you for your letter, please find our response below:

Good afternoon, 
 
Thank you for contacting BW Legal and for the information you have provided. 
 
A PCN is not subject to VAT as it is not an invoice. A PCN is a reminder of your contractual obligations to adhere to the terms and conditions of parking and notification that these terms have been breached due to insufficient paid time. 
 
This PCN is in regards to the breach of the terms and conditions of the site for the contravention reason of insufficient paid time, this is not in regards to damages.
 
The Charge you have been issued with represents the breach of a core term within the parking contract which was formed when your vehicle entered and remained on private land in excess of the grace period and subsequently breached Furthermore, in 2015, the Supreme Court case of ParkingEye v Beavis confirmed that the parking charge was not about loss, but a legitimate charge to deter motorists from breaching the contract under which they are permitted to use the car park. 
 
It is the overriding objective of the courts for parties to settle matters amicably without the need for a formal hearing. This includes raising any disputes and concerns with either party, prior to the issue of a County Court claim, to ensure court time is not wasted and additional costs are not incurred unnecessarily. 
 
In respect of the contents of your correspondence, it is apparent that a large amount of the information contained therein has simply been ‘copied and pasted’ from an external source, which we see on a regular basis. Large portions of your letter are irrelevant to the claim and therefore nonsensical, and therefore unreasonable. 
 
This matter will remain due and owing. 
 
Should you have any queries please contact our office on 0113 487 0430.

If you have any further issues or new questions that you would like us to assist you with, we kindly request that you use the contact options below to submit a new query.
You can also log into our Customer Portal by clicking here, and go to the Contact History of your account to view the contact.

Yours sincerely,

Doesn’t matter how they got your email address. What is the email address they sent it from?

Respond with the following:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Re: Your Letter of Claim dated 14 March 2025 and subsequent evasive response

Your recent reply to my response under the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (“PAPDC”) is as predictable as it is professionally unacceptable.

Rather than comply with the PAPDC, you have doubled down on your client’s unreasonable position by issuing a dismissive, boilerplate non-response. You have not answered a single question I raised with the clarity or specificity the Protocol demands. Your attempt to discredit my letter on the basis that it resembled a commonly used template is legally irrelevant and patently absurd. The questions posed are pertinent, necessary, and entirely within the scope of the PAPDC and Practice Direction – Pre-Action Conduct.

As regulated solicitors, you are required to engage constructively, not attempt to browbeat consumers into silence. If your client’s case had any legal merit, you would have no difficulty providing coherent answers. Your failure to do so will be a matter of record.

I remind you again:

• I am the registered keeper. I am under no obligation to identify the driver and I decline to do so.
• There is no legal presumption that the keeper was the driver: see VCS v Edward [2023] (H0KF6C9C).
• Your client is not relying on PoFA 2012, so cannot pursue me as the keeper.
• Therefore, your client has no cause of action against me in either capacity.

Your refusal to acknowledge this basic legal reality is prima facie evidence of unreasonable conduct.

Should you issue a claim in these circumstances, I will immediately seek:

• A costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) on the basis of your unreasonable behaviour;
• A formal stay of proceedings under paragraph 15 of the Practice Direction;
• Disclosure orders compelling the very information your client should have provided before threatening litigation;
• And I will file a formal complaint to the Solicitors Regulation Authority, supported by this correspondence.

Furthermore, your conduct now compels me to require additional information, as allowed under the PAPDC. I repeat my earlier questions and now demand that your client also provides answers to the following, to allow me to fully understand the alleged claim:

1. Full details of the alleged cause of action.
2. Confirmation of whether your client alleges a contract with me, and if so:
 a. The date it was formed,
 b. The parties to it,
 c. The terms relied upon, and
 d. A copy of the alleged contract.
3. Confirmation of whether the claim is brought in contract or in tort (e.g. trespass).
4. A complete breakdown of the amount claimed: principal, added sums, interest, costs.
5. Whether the added £60 sum is a “debt recovery” charge, contractual fee, or other.
6. If it is a “debt recovery” fee:
 a. Is it paid to a third party or retained by your client?
 b. Is it VAT-inclusive?
 c. If VAT is charged, why am I being asked to cover your client’s tax liability?
7. Full details of the alleged contravention:
 a. Precise duration of stay,
 b. Evidence relied upon (e.g. ANPR records),
 c. Any grace or consideration periods applied.
8. A copy of the signage that allegedly formed the contract.
9. A site map showing signage locations.
10. Proof of your client’s landowner authority, as required by the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice.
11. Evidence that your client has fully complied with that Code.
12. Confirmation of whether the alleged charge was ever subject to internal or independent appeal. If so, provide all correspondence and decisions.
13. Whether your client holds DVLA Keeper data; and if so, the exact date that data was obtained and under what basis.
14. Whether your client asserts that keeper liability applies and, if not, who they allege the driver to be and on what basis.
15. Whether your client’s signs were in compliance with the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and applicable guidance on unfair terms in consumer contracts.

I repeat: you must not issue proceedings until your client has complied with the PAPDC and supplied full answers to the above. Any claim issued without proper pre-action disclosure will be met with an application to strike out, stay, or sanction, supported by authority including:

Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch),
Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Ltd [2007] EWHC 855 (TCC),
Daejan Investments Ltd v Park West Club Ltd [2003] EWHC 2872 (TCC).

You are now on formal notice: any further failure to comply will be used against your firm and your client in any proceedings. I will seek full recovery of costs for your unreasonable and abusive litigation tactics, and escalate your professional misconduct to the SRA.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Name]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

They try and browbeat the keeper and then the keeper adopts a similar posture to impress them with knowledge, whether correct and however obtained, to try and cause them to cease.

Subject to the respective dates of the breach and posting of the NTK being as the OP has stated, then...


Personally, I would try and engage with the substantive part of their response - bearing in mind it's the only non-standard communication the keeper has received. Specifically, I am referring to this section:

A PCN is not subject to VAT as it is not an invoice. A PCN is a reminder of your contractual obligations to adhere to the terms and conditions of parking and notification that these terms have been breached due to insufficient paid time.
 
This PCN is in regards to the breach of the terms and conditions of the site for the contravention reason of insufficient paid time, this is not in regards to damages.
 
The Charge you have been issued with represents the breach of a core term within the parking contract which was formed when your vehicle entered and remained on private land in excess of the grace period


From the above it would appear that your client is acting on the basis that despite the fact that a parking charge would be owed by the driver, they are stating as a fact that the keeper is liable i.e. 'the charge you have been issued with'. Putting aside for one moment whether the driver incurred a parking charge, your client's 'Right to claim unpaid parking charges from keeper of vehicle' arises only if they have complied with the mandatory requirements of para. 4 of Schedule 12 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

Given that one of these conditions (one might say 'core' condition) is that a Notice to Keeper must have been given no later than the end of '..the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.' and that in this case the Notice to Keeper was not even issued until 16 days had elapsed, then it is manifestly obvious that the creditor has no 'right to claim unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle'.

At this point I would refer you to this paragraph in your letter:

It is the overriding objective of the courts for parties to settle matters amicably without the need for a formal hearing. This includes raising any disputes and concerns with either party, prior to the issue of a County Court claim, to ensure court time is not wasted and additional costs are not incurred unnecessarily. 

May I suggest that you advise your client that they have no 'right to claim unpaid parking charges from the keeper' before the court's time is wasted.

Thank You both for your response.

Email they sent their email from noreply@bwlegal.co.uk.