Author Topic: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone  (Read 496 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

dk007

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
« on: November 27, 2023, 12:10:44 am »
Hello Experts,

I have received this Parking Charge Notice to Keeper from NCP for Gatwick Airport drop off zone. Date of incident is 05th june but letter has arrived few days back and it is dated 10th Nov 2023.

Please could you advise if it can be appealed? Is it ok for them to send it about 6 months later or they need to send it within few days of the incident?

Thanks

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter


Nosy Parker

  • Expert committee
  • *
  • Posts: 139
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2023, 12:57:15 am »
Appeal using one of the standard Gatwick/Heathrow drop of zone appeal templates. This one is as good as any http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=150322

Be sure not to identify who was driving
« Last Edit: November 27, 2023, 01:00:35 am by Nosy Parker »
Agree Agree x 1 View List

DWMB2

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
  • Karma: +17/-0
    • View Profile
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2023, 09:53:50 am »
That's very late even by NCP standards! Can you confirm that you're the registered keeper of the vehicle? If so, the appeal linked to by Nosy Parker above will be a good one to use.

If it's a hire/lease car and you aren't the RK let us know and we can advise an alternative.

dk007

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2023, 05:20:53 am »
Hi, I had appealed using as stated above but they rejected it, rejection letter came about a week ago. What should be the next course of action?

Thanks

Nosy Parker

  • Expert committee
  • *
  • Posts: 139
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2023, 05:45:46 am »
Please show us the rejection letter with the usual redactions

DWMB2

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
  • Karma: +17/-0
    • View Profile
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2023, 08:58:21 am »
POPLA will be your next step, but as above let's see the rejection letter so we know what they're trying to argue.

dk007

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2023, 08:11:57 pm »
Hi, thanks for your messages,  It seems I have misplaced that letter, please could you advise what to do? Thanks

DWMB2

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
  • Karma: +17/-0
    • View Profile
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2023, 11:04:14 pm »
You could do with searching for it... That letter will contain the POPLA code that you need in order to lodge an appeal with POPLA.

Nosy Parker

  • Expert committee
  • *
  • Posts: 139
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2023, 11:49:02 pm »
You really need that POPLA code in order to appeal and you need to lodge your appeal before the POPLA code expires. The rejection letter will have told you that the code expires after 28 days but they usually remain alive until day 33.

You can request a copy from NCP via a subject access request (SAR) but they can take up to a calendar month to respond and they will only start the clock running if you supply a copy of your vehicle V5 registration document (log book) so
you should send it in with your SAR. The email address for your SAR is dataprotection@ncp.co.uk. You can also submit it via the NCP website at https://national-car-parks-limited.privacy.saymine.io/National_Car_Parks_Limited

But it would be best if you could just find it and lodge your POPLA appeal

dk007

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2024, 11:39:14 am »
Hi,

I managed to find the rejection letter, please could you review and advise as we may not have much time to respond to this.

Many Thanks

DWMB2

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
  • Karma: +17/-0
    • View Profile
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2024, 11:59:53 am »
The fact they were prepared to settle up for £15 suggests they know they've no case.

Yes, you'll need to get your POPLA appeal in ASAP - have you been drafting one on the basis of the lack of PoFA compliance?

dk007

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2024, 12:06:43 pm »
Hi, Thanks, Please could you direct me to the link to draft this appeal or if there is a draft appeal to use, i can do so.

DWMB2

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
  • Karma: +17/-0
    • View Profile
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2024, 12:25:01 pm »
I'm not sure that there's a template "ready to go" - if you search on PePiPoo and the MoneySavingExpert private parking forums for Gatwick cases there should be some that have gone to POPLA that will have examples you can use to help you. The points you should be making will be along the following key lines:

  • That you are appealing as the registered keeper, and that NCP do not know the identity of the driver, and that you have no liability as the keeper because:
  • Parking at Gatwick Airport, including the drop off zones, is subject to statutory control, namely byelways, and is therefore not 'Relevant Land' as defined by Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA). As a result of this, they cannot use the provisions of PoFA to hold you liable as the registered keeper
  • Even if it were relevant land, which is denied, NCP's notice does not conform to the requirements of a Notice to Keeper as prescribed by paragraph 9 of the Act, as it was not given within the relevant period of 14 days of the parking incident, as required by 9(4)
  • Signage - Nosy Parker may be more familiar with the issues with the signage at Gatwick, but it is known to be shoddy
The PoFA points should be enough to get POPLA on board. If you can draft something up ASAP and show us, ideally today.

dk007

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2024, 01:19:18 pm »
This is what i have found on mse website:

I am appealing as keeper. I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so.

1. The operator is unable to transfer liability to me as keeper pursuant to Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) because the drop off zones at Gatwick are not ‘relevant land’ as defined in POFA.

2. Even if (which is not the case) the land in question is relevant land the operator’s notice was delivered after the expiry of the ‘relevant period’ as defined in POFA paragraph 9(5).

3 In addition the operator’s notice does not conform to the requirements set out in POFA paragraphs 9(2)(f).

Furthermore, as keeper I am entitled to all the defences available to the driver including (without limitation) the following:

4. The parking charge is not notified until after the contract is entered into and under the principles set out by the Court of Appeal in Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking, does not form part of the contract between the driver and the operator;

5 The signage is not compliant with the BPA Code of Practice.

H C Andersen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 515
  • Karma: +15/-0
    • View Profile
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2024, 03:06:33 pm »
If POPLA allow up to 33 days from the date of the operator's letter then this is Sat. 13th. (letter dated 11 Dec.)

If not, then you're likely to be too late.

Get what you've got submitted ASP.

But POPLA isn't a judicial proceeding, the only one which counts is civil court.

Not only are you not required to name the driver, you're under no legal duty to respond to their drivel. Just because they initiate correspondence doesn't mean it has any legal significance, and theirs doesn't because the only relevant statute, Sch. 4 Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, specifically excludes such a claim from its scope!

As others know, I don't agree with the template because implicitly it subscribes to a legally false premise e.g. of course their notice doesn't comply with PoFA, it never sought to; and it makes no demands on the keeper etc.

But we don't have time to debate this - go with what you've got and hope you're not too late.