Author Topic: PCN delays and confusion  (Read 854 times)

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PCN delays and confusion
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I have received two PCNs and am trying to unpick the confusion, but debt collector is now not communicating and will refer for further action

I have leased the car (so am not registered keeper)
Parking incidents occurred at Cambridge North station

 
PCN1 was issued 14/06/2024, but notice sent 4/2/2025
I’m not quite sure why there was an 8 month delay in issuing the notice ??
I made payment on 5/2/2025, but it was applied to PCN2, which I have not received (see below)
Hence it appeared that PCN1 was unpaid

PCN2 was issued on 16/01/2025, but I never received notice of this


PCN1 was referred to debt collector, and I tried to explain the situation and made an offer
"Without prejudice, I am happy to make payment for the £60 fine, but don’t feel it right for you to charge the late payment, nor debt recovery fee as I never received notice
I look forward to your reply and proposed settlement offer of £60"

This was rejected, and they say that I now have 14 days to pay the fines, or it will be referred for further cation.
They state they will not enter into further correspondence on the matter



All correspondence has been to my company (that is leasing the car) and states
"The driver of the above vehicle is liable for a parking charge....."


What would people advise are my next steps

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Re: PCN delays and confusion
« Reply #1 on: »
Show us the paperwork you have and give us a timeline of dates of what you’re talking about, otherwise we’re in the dark and guessing which won’t help you.

Have nothing to do with debt collectors, I know you have tried to engage, but they’re useless and not on your side in any way, they just want their commission for extracting money from you.

Re: PCN delays and confusion
« Reply #2 on: »
Are the “PCN”s you refer to called Notice to Hirer and, if so, were additional documents attached to them?

Re: PCN delays and confusion
« Reply #3 on: »
Cambridge North Station implies this may be covered by railway byelaws which are completely different from parking on private land. Without more information we can’t make sensible guesses.

Re: PCN delays and confusion
« Reply #4 on: »
Here's the original PCN1 that was issued 14/06/2024, but notice sent 4/2/2025
I received it and made payment on 5/2/2025

However, that payment was allocated to another PCN, which I never received a copy of
Hence it appeared that PCN1 was unpaid

PCN2 was issued on 16/01/2025, but I never received notice of this

9/3/25 I received notice of non-payment of PCN1, and I contacted gaparjking, and they eventually informed me of the other PCN and that my payment had been allocated to this one
As I was trying to resolve, they then referred to debt collector

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Re: PCN delays and confusion
« Reply #5 on: »
This was so easily sorted without any hassle had you come here before making any silly mistakes. I will give you £100 for each occurrence of the word "fine" in either of the Notices to Keeper (NtK) you received about this.

NOWHERE have you received anything says you have 14 days to pay the "fines". What you have received is a useless debt recovery letter. Debt collectors are powerless to actually do anything except to try and make the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay up out of ignorance and fear. You must never, ever, enter into communication with a powerless debt collector. You can safely ignore them.

As the Hirer is a company, not a named individual, has the driver been identified at any stage in this process?

As the known Hirer of the vehicle, you were under no legal obligation to identify the unknown (to NCP) driver. Furthermore, since the location in question — Cambridge North Station — is land subject to statutory control (i.e., governed by railway byelaws), it is not relevant land for the purposes of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA). Accordingly, keeper or hirer liability cannot be transferred under PoFA in such circumstances.

Even if the site had constituted “relevant land” under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), NCP would still have had no lawful basis to transfer liability from the unknown driver to the known Hirer. This is because they failed to comply with the strict conditions set out in Schedule 4, specifically paragraphs 13 and 14. These provisions mandate that a valid Notice to Keeper must first be served, followed by the timely issue of a Notice to Hirer within 21 days of receiving both the hirer’s details and a copy of the hire agreement from the vehicle hire company. Without full compliance with these procedural requirements, any attempt to transfer liability to the Hirer is invalid under PoFA.

However, you are where you are and hopefully a lesson is learnt.

To be clear, you have not received any formal or enforceable notice giving you 14 days to pay any “fines.” What has been received is merely a debt recovery letter, which has no legal standing and does not constitute a letter before claim or any form of court action. Debt collection agencies engaged by private parking operators have no enforcement powers whatsoever — they cannot issue fines, take legal action in their own name, or add enforceable charges. Their role is limited to sending speculative demands in the hope that the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay up out of ignorance and fear.

You are strongly advised not to engage or correspond with the debt collector under any circumstances. These letters can safely be ignored.

So, given the situation, FUBAR, — where the Hirer company has paid one PCN but the operator has wrongly allocated the payment to the wrong PCN, and where both notices are procedurally flawed for different reasons — there is still may be a route to untangle this and potentially recover the payment or at least shut down further liability.

So, for the avoidance of doubt... has the driver (a named person employed by the company) been identified?

Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN delays and confusion
« Reply #6 on: »
Many thanks for your comments

The driver has never been identified in any correspondence

Re: PCN delays and confusion
« Reply #7 on: »
Thank you for that clarification. So, to summarise:

ItemPCN1PCN2
Alleged contravention14 June 202416 January 2025
NtH issued4 February 2025Not received
Driver identified?NoNo
Hirer is?A companyA company
Payment made?£60 on 5 Feb (intended for PCN1)Payment wrongly applied here
PCN statusSent to debt recovery agentNo NtH received – therefore not properly pursued

Depending on how the £60 already paid was made (credit card?) it it may be possible to try and get that back, but it depends on a few practical and legal factors.

1. Can the payment be reversed (e.g. via credit card chargeback)?

If your company paid by credit card, a chargeback request could be made to the card provider on one of the following grounds:

• Payment made in error;
• Misrepresentation by the merchant;
• No valid liability existed, and the service (debt settlement) was not contractually owed.

However:

• Chargeback schemes (e.g. Visa/Mastercard) typically require prompt action — often within 120 days of the transaction.
• Some banks will resist where the transaction involved a service knowingly rendered (e.g. a parking charge), unless you can show you were misled or coerced.

It’s also worth noting that because parking charges are “civil debts,” not goods or physical services, success with chargebacks is inconsistent.

2. Legal Position: Payment Made Under a Mistake of Fact

In contract law, a payment made under a mistake of fact (e.g. a belief that the company was liable, when it was not) may be recoverable through an action in restitution.

The relevant principles are:

• A mistaken payment, if not owed, can be reclaimed (Kelly v Solari (1841)).
• However, if the recipient has changed their position in reliance on the payment, they may resist restitution.

So, if NCP accepted the payment without valid liability, you could demand repayment, particularly if they had no legal entitlement to it (no PoFA, no driver admission).

For now, you can send the following formal complaint to NCP at customer.service@ncp.co.uk and make sure to CC in yourself:

Quote
[Your Company Name]
[Company Address]
[Postcode]

[Email Address]

[Date]

National Car Parks Limited
Saffron Court
14B St. Cross Street
London
EC1N 8XA

To: customer.service@ncp.co.uk

Dear Sir/Madam,

Formal Complaint – Parking Charge Notices: [insert PCN1 ref] and [insert PCN2 ref]
Vehicle registration: [insert VRM]

We write in relation to the above parking charge notices issued in connection with alleged contraventions at Cambridge North station, dated 14 June 2024 (PCN1) and 16 January 2025 (PCN2). This is a formal complaint regarding NCP's handling of these matters and the inappropriate allocation of payment made by our company.

Our company is the Hirer, not the Registered Keeper, and the driver of the vehicle has not been identified in relation to either notice. Accordingly, we have reviewed the notices and NCP’s correspondence in the context of the applicable legal and regulatory framework, including the Private Parking Code of Practice v1.1 (17 February 2025) and the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA).

PCN1 – Issued 4 February 2025
This Notice to Hirer was issued over seven months after the alleged parking event, with no justification provided for the significant delay. We note that:

Cambridge North station is not relevant land under PoFA, being subject to statutory control.
PoFA does not apply, and NCP cannot lawfully transfer liability to the Hirer.
The language in your notice ("The driver is liable") confirms you are not relying on PoFA.
A payment of £60 was made on 5 February 2025 as a gesture of goodwill to resolve this matter in full and final settlement.
Despite this, the payment was not correctly allocated, and collection activity has since continued. This is improper.

PCN2 – No Notice Received
We have never received a Notice to Hirer for PCN2. It is procedurally flawed and unenforceable.

Allocating the payment made in respect of PCN1 to PCN2 is a misapplication of funds.
This act has wrongly caused PCN1 to be marked unpaid and referred to a debt collector.
Formal Complaint and Required Actions
We now require that NCP:

• Reallocate the £60 payment to PCN1, for which it was intended.
• Cancel PCN2, which was never properly served and is unsupported by any driver admission.
• Confirm in writing that no liability remains for either PCN and that all enforcement action will cease.
• Remove the matter from debt collection, and confirm that the account has been marked as settled.

Any further collection activity — particularly in relation to a charge that was either not served (PCN2) or already settled (PCN1) — will be treated as harassment and reported to the relevant regulators for breach of the Private Parking Code of Practice, Section 1.5 (fairness, transparency, and accountability).

If this matter is not resolved within 14 days, we will escalate our complaint to the BPA and DVLA and reserve our right to pursue further action.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Full Name]
[Job Title]
For and on behalf of [Company Name]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN delays and confusion
« Reply #8 on: »
Hi
GaAppeals have responded with this email

=============================
Good Morning,
 
There seems to be some confusion surrounding GA00225695 and GA00267727.
 
When we receive a transfer of liability as we did in your case from Alphabet, the current PCN is closed as it contains obsolete details and a new one opens with a new reference number and a new driver/hirer/keeper. Therefore GA00225695 closed and a new number of GA00267727 was allocated.
 
We can confirm GA00225695 is closed and GA00265267 has a payment of £60 and is also closed.
 
As your Parking Charge Notice GA00267727 has now been transferred to Trace Debt Recovery all further correspondence regarding this notice will need to be sent to them directly as NCP cannot accept appeals or payments regarding this notice.
If you require contact information for Trace please see the below provided details:
Enquiry line: 01604 968 123
Mon to Fri, 9am to 5pm
Email: customerservice@tracerecovery.co.uk
Web enquiry: www.tracerecovery.co.uk
Follow links to ‘Contact us’ and complete the web enquiry form
Kind Regards
 
Kind Regards
National Car Parks Ltd
==============================

And Trace Debt recovery has just sent me this letter (attached)


How do you recommend responding ?

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Re: PCN delays and confusion
« Reply #9 on: »
In order to try and get a grip on this, please tell us which of those 3 PCN numbers you have shown us refers to what was previously referred to as PCN1 and PCN2.

We need to know what was sent to your company as the Hirer in the company name. Also, if you received a copy of any Notice to Keeper (NtK) that was sent to Alphabet but was forwarded to your company, we need to see that too.

It is almost impossible to deal with this unless we get some clarification which NtK, NtH and whatever else was sent to who and which NtK or NtH was payment made for and allocated by NCP to whichever PCN they are referring to.

Just to clarify for you... as the vehicle is a lease vehicle, leased to your company, then your company is the HIRER. Alphabet, as lease company is the KEEPER.

When a PCN is issued, it is either issued as a Notice to Driver (NtD) and affixed to the windscreen and if not responded to after 28 days, NCP will generate a Notice to Keeper (NtK) which is sent to the KEEPER, Alphabet.

Alphabet then transfer liability to the Hirer by giving NCP your company details as the HITER. NCP then have to generate a Notice to Hirer (NtH) which sent to the HIRER, your company.

When your company paid £60 to NCP, which they should never have done as the HIRER, your company, was never liable for the charge, to which notice did your company respond to? Was it to a copy of the original NtK that Alphabet may have sent you or was it to the NtH that was sent to you, the HIRER, by NCP?

Have you received any other copy of an NtK from Alphabet or received another NtH from NCP for a separate alleged contravention?

I need your answer to be as clear as possible and in the following format if possible:

Quote
GA00225695: This appears to be the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) issued to the lease company, Alphabet.
GA00267727: This appears to be the Notice to Hirer (NtH) reissued to the Hirer after Alphabet passed on details.
GA00265267: This reference is unknown to the Hirer. We have never received any notice bearing this number.
A payment of £60 was made on 5 February 2025. This was intended to resolve GA00267727 — the only PCN received. NCP now claim the payment was applied to GA00265267, a reference never served or notified to the Hirer. NCP also state that GA00267727 remains open and has been passed to a debt collection agency.

As far as their debt recovery agent is concerned, you can safely ignore anything and everything you get from them. You DO NOT enter into any communication with Trace or any other powerless debt collector. Never, EVER enter into communication wth a third party that has nothing todo with the contract allegedly breached by the driver.

NCP have outright lied on the notice you showed us where they have said "We, National Car Parks Limited, are the creditor. We have been advised that you were the driver of the vehicle at the time that the parking charge was incurred and that you are liable for payment of the Parking Charge." Alphabet have absolutely no idea who was the driver. All they did was to inform NCP who the HIRER of the vehicle is.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2025, 03:45:37 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN delays and confusion
« Reply #10 on: »
To clarify

GA00225695 is the original Notice to Keeper - which I never saw
This was closed and then GA00267727 was issued (PCN1) - Notice to Keeper, This was addressed to my company and received 4th Feb 2025

I made payment for this on 5th Feb 2025, but NCP allocated it to GA00265267 (PCN2) which I didn't receive a copy of (but see below)

NCP then sent a final reminder (for GA00267727 Notice to Hirer) on 9th March 2025

I attempted to communicate with them to explain that I had paid PCN1 (I was unaware of PCN2 at this time), but during this time they referred it to Trace Debt recovery



I have (today) gone back through my Junk email, and found an email from Alphabet relating to GA00265267 - This is a Notice to Keeper (addressed to Alphabet)
An accompanying letter (attached) from Alphabet states

"We have written to the relevant authority transferring liability of this offence to you. The authority will now write to you
directly issuing a new notice with all new timescales."

This was never received





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Re: PCN delays and confusion
« Reply #11 on: »
I'm still confused. Are you saying that Alphabet did not send a copy of the NtK they received with that letter informing you about PCN GA00265267. And are you saying you never received an NtH for that PCN addressed to your company as the HIRER?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN delays and confusion
« Reply #12 on: »
Sorry

Alphabet did send copy of Notice to Keeper
and also Third Party Authorisation letter (customer name is Company)
both attached


I can confirm I never received Notice to Hirer for PCN GA00225695 addressed to my company as the Hirer

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Re: PCN delays and confusion
« Reply #13 on: »
As this is getting too confusing for my addled brain, let's cut back to the basics...

The outstanding PCN... have you received an NtH in your (the HIRERS) name? If not, there is nothing to do. If yes, have you appealed is as the HIRER? If so, is the driver identified, inadvertently or otherwise? If yes... you blew it. If no, then they have o case to pursue you, should they be so stupid as to try and litigate it.

The fact that Alphabet sent you a letter of authority to deal with it, is irrelevant. Unless they transferred liability by informing NCP that they are the Keeper and given your details as the Hirer (together with the necessary copies of required document as per PoFA p. 14.) then they have not transferred liability. However, they also cannot be liable as the Keeper, but are probably too thik to know this and will, if pressed by NCP, simply pay it and charge it back to you.

It's a mess and to be honest, I don't have the time right now to deal with it unless everything is made clear.

In simple terms, only the driver is liable. If they don't know who the driver is, then they cannot sue anyone else. However, there are plenty of low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree who are likely to pay up out of ignorance and fear, therefore wasting the clear defence of no liability.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain