3. Parkingeye PCN: Passey Place Car Park - Ticket Not Purchased!
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Parkingeye PCN: Passey Place Car Park - Ticket Not Purchased!
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HELP!!

1. The car park is attached to the Eltham branch of Sainsburys.

2. The parking tariff is refunded if you spend £10 or more in store.

3. This wasn't a shopping trip. The driver's missus was attending a hospital appt. at the Eltham Community Hospital.

4. She has a 'blue badge', which she believed exempted her from normal parking charges.

5. The driver knew this was nonsense, but unfortunately didn't engage his grey matter sufficiently to challenge her baseless assumptions.

6. Consequently, no ticket was purchased.

7. You now have before you the result of the driver's own stupidity and lack of engagement with his missus' misapprehensions about her parking rights.

8. The driver is painfully aware that the PPC will just laugh at any appeal based on this set of circumstances. He would rather by-pass this stage altogether if legally feasible.

9. Although there must be signs all over the place, none were seen or read. The disabled bays were by the entrance, and the driver had no reason to seek them out.

10. The driver wonders if the invoice might be successfully challenged by arguing, for example, that there is no contract between him and the PPC.

11. Her misapprehensions arose from a tel/con. with Customer Services at Bexley Council, who assured her that no charges applied to her when using council-owned car parks.

12. It was also assumed that this car park was owned by Greenwich Council. Unfortunately:

"No, the Eltham Sainsbury’s car park (Passey Place) is not, and has not been, directly owned by Greenwich Council. It is owned and operated by the Greenwich Enterprise Board (GEB), a social enterprise and independent body, although the Council helped establish the GEB. It is technically private land, though open to the public."

Yes, the driver walked into this one. Any grounds for a defence? Any point in appealing when the driver knows any appeal will be rejected OOH?

Any help/advice greatly appreciated.

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« Last Edit: Yesterday at 06:47:58 am by Eryobotrya »
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Re: Parkingeye PCN: Passey Place Car Park - Ticket Not Purchased!
« Reply #1 on: »
No not really, driver cocked up big time. Could do with seeing the PCN, you might have a golden ticket where it's been issued late but its unlikely. You will no doubt be told Parkingeye PCNs are not POFA compliant (an opinion not a hard proven fact), but that won't win any appeals.

You could just ignore it but it's not a great idea and it won't go away. Eventually you will probably get a letter of claim and a court case. With no appeal being lodged and such a basic failure to adhere to the Ts and Cs I could see Parkingeye actually taking this one to court. If you do get a letter of claim you must engage or you could get a default CCJ which screws up your credit rating. You cant hurry the process on really, not appealing won't bring the court case forward.
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Re: Parkingeye PCN: Passey Place Car Park - Ticket Not Purchased!
« Reply #2 on: »
Be careful, please don’t spread the “fact” that a CCJ negatively affects credit rating. It only does so if it’s recorded, which means that if the judgement is paid & satisfied within 30 days there is no record and credit is not affected.

See more words on the subject at https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/kellys-storage-luton-universal-parking-enforcement-ltd/msg59804/#msg59804
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:50:55 am by jfollows »
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Re: Parkingeye PCN: Passey Place Car Park - Ticket Not Purchased!
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote
10. The driver wonders if the invoice might be successfully challenged by arguing, for example, that there is no contract between him and the PPC.
The contract exists if there’s an offer made by the signs, if the driver was able to consider the offer and choose to accept it, and accept the offer and enter into a contract by parking. I’m not a lawyer so that may be a slight paraphrase, but it seems like all these things were done.
Obviously, if the signs conveying conditions for blue badge holders were unclear or confusing, there’s an argument to be made that no contract was formed. However I think the blue badge scheme itself is reasonably clear about where it applies, and private car parks are able to set their own terms, but don’t have to offer free parking.
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Re: Parkingeye PCN: Passey Place Car Park - Ticket Not Purchased!
« Reply #4 on: »
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Could do with seeing the PCN

Redacted copy uploaded to the hosting site already linked for you.
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Re: Parkingeye PCN: Passey Place Car Park - Ticket Not Purchased!
« Reply #5 on: »
The notice appears to say “give us money” but does not seem to meet the requirements of
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012
An Act to provide for the destruction, retention, use and other regulation of certain evidential material; to impose consent and other requirements in relation to certain processing of biometric in...
legislation.gov.uk

Quote
(2)The notice must—

(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

(b)inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;

(c)state that a notice to driver relating to the specified period of parking has been given and repeat the information in that notice as required by paragraph 7(2)(b), (c) and (f);

(d)if the unpaid parking charges specified in that notice to driver as required by paragraph 7(2)(c) have been paid in part, specify the amount that remains unpaid, as at a time which is—

(i)specified in the notice to keeper, and

(ii)no later than the end of the day before the day on which the notice is either sent by post or, as the case may be, handed to or left at a current address for service for the keeper (see sub-paragraph (4));

(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—

(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or

(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;

(f)warn the keeper that if, at the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to keeper is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges (as specified under paragraph (c) or (d)) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;
(g)inform the keeper of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;

(h)identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment or notification to the creditor may be made;

(i)specify the date on which the notice is sent (if it is sent by post) or given (in any other case).
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Re: Parkingeye PCN: Passey Place Car Park - Ticket Not Purchased!
« Reply #6 on: »
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With no appeal being lodged ...

Would a rejected appeal make any difference to the outcome? They'll still want to do court, coz their chances of a win are pretty good, right?

The driver is well past the stage of caring about any adverse effects of a CCJ on his credit rating. His main concern is more likely to be about any enforcement action they might take - eg such as seizing the vehicle to pay off the debt/judgment.
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Re: Parkingeye PCN: Passey Place Car Park - Ticket Not Purchased!
« Reply #7 on: »
Don't over think this.

Make an appeal to PE based on the fact that the PCN is not PoFA compliant - PE will reject it.

Then we can go to POPLA.
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Re: Parkingeye PCN: Passey Place Car Park - Ticket Not Purchased!
« Reply #8 on: »
"His main concern is more likely to be about any enforcement action they might take - eg such as seizing the vehicle to pay off the debt/judgment."

I don't think that ever happens, for the amount of money they could end up owing it just isn't worth trying to enforce.

PE will reject an appeal based on non POFA compliance, and it's highly likely POPLA will also reject it unless someone can come up with some irrefutable wording.
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Re: Parkingeye PCN: Passey Place Car Park - Ticket Not Purchased!
« Reply #9 on: »
Parking Eye can not seize anything.
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Re: Parkingeye PCN: Passey Place Car Park - Ticket Not Purchased!
« Reply #10 on: »
For the avoidance of doubt, I'm obviously not referring to enforcement by PE themselves. I have zero concerns about that, or even having a CCJ recorded against me. I was more concerned about the possibility that they might use the services of the court sheriff, etc., to enforce any judgment against me.   
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Re: Parkingeye PCN: Passey Place Car Park - Ticket Not Purchased!
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: Eryobotrya on Today at 10:16:41 am
For the avoidance of doubt, I'm obviously not referring to enforcement by PE themselves. I have zero concerns about that, or even having a CCJ recorded against me. I was more concerned about the possibility that they might use the services of the court sheriff, etc., to enforce any judgment against me.
Impossible in the absence of a “judgement”.
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Re: Parkingeye PCN: Passey Place Car Park - Ticket Not Purchased!
« Reply #12 on: »
And don't forget, the Driver now does nothing. All action and responses are by the Keeper.
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