Author Topic: Parking charge notice, 20-28 Cotland´s Road, Bournemouth countrywide parking: Failure to pay, 25 min  (Read 9775 times)

0 Members and 860 Guests are viewing this topic.

Good afternoon,

I´ve had a ticket through from Countrywide Parking and would like if someone could cast an eye over my proposed second appeal and perhaps offer some guidance or supporting arguments that I can add. My first round appeal was rejected by them, so now am onto the second round appeal.

The long and short of it is that I parked in a car park for a quick drop off, saw the signs for ANPR and the associated camera, and went to purchase a ticket.

Due to Countrywide Parking cost saving techniques and decision not to install a pay machine, I was forced to have to use and app - one of the options for which was “Ringo”.

I then went about downloading the app and inputting my details and card details in order to register, following confirmation email links and the like and eventually was in a position to locate the car park in question.

From previous experience on other apps such as “pay to park” app, it’s usually easier to find associated car parks using the map function, since the codes they use aren’t always searchable. Therefore I went on the map function, pressed the arrow to focus on in my current position, and then found “Cotlands Road” car park. This was the only car park in the vicinity of where I was showing up on the map.

This process took me 11 minutes to achieve, due to the arduous enrolment process and also patchy mobile signal coverage in the area.

I then got an unexpected letter through the post demanding a sum of £100.00, discounted to £60.00 of course if paid within 14 days of the letter.

Since this was an unexpected arrival, I did some investigation work into what happened as I was under the impression that I was paid up and parked in accordance with their rules. I’d assumed it was the 11 minutes it took to have the ticket issued from first arrival into the car park, however that was not their reasoning. They said I did not have a ticket for their car park “20-28 Cotland´s Road”, but rather I had one for “Cotland´s Road” which is different car park nearby.

As it turns out the map function of Ringo does not have the 3 car parks in the immediate vicinity (20-28 Cotland´s Road, Cotland´s Road and Cotland´s Road Overflow) listed, just Cotland´s Road which is located to the North East of the car park. In fact if you search in the car park code specifically 819627, the map goes to a location somewhere over the mid-atlantic along the equator. Also if you use the function to extract to google maps, there is “no location found”.

(In the evidence folder I have included a screenshot in situ whilst physically stood in 20-28 Cotland´s Road, and another screenshot as proof that the app map function only has the Cotlands Road Car park (59037) shown to the North East).

Being that this particular car park is in Bournemouth, it seems unreasonable to me for the motorist to be able to deduce whether they should go for the only car park listed on the map in the vicinity (with almost the exact same name as the one in question, bar the 20-28 numbers at the front), or the car park in the mid-atlantic but with the correct code. At best it’s a 50/50 choice, and for me the one in the middle of the ocean seemed like the most risky option since it appeared to not exist, hence I went with Cotland´s Road.

I will be writing words to this effect to the 2nd round appeal process and would appreciate any additional arguments. I´ve attached the relevant documents to the file associated for consideration. I have also included some images from the adjacent council car park Cotland´s Road, although didn’t take any of the third car park around the corner Cotland´s Road Overflow as I didn’t think it would bring anything additional to the table.



Many Thanks

https://imgur.com/a/20-28-cotland-s-roads-U14vZ21
« Last Edit: February 19, 2025, 04:12:08 pm by Mark_Fletch13 »

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


Whilst you have documented very clearly what has happened, it will not make one iota of difference. You are dealing with an ex-clamper who is out scam you. They are a member of the IPC, a breakaway organisation from the BPA set up by a couple of solicitors with extremely dubious reputations and their only remit is to protect their cabal of members from having to deal with the hoy polloi of gullible motorist victims.

Your secondary appeal will be a waste of time and effort. The IAS is not quite as "independent" as you may think. Check out the company directors of both the IPC and the IAS and don't be surprised at what you find out. The IAS is a kangaroo court and any appeal has less than 4% chance of being successful. However, if you insist, fill your boots.

I don't know whether you have identified the Keeper as the driver in your initial appeal, but if you have, you threw away a perfectly good appeal and, more importantly, legal defence, where this is eventually going to end up. Why? The Notice to Keeper (NtK) was not fully compliant with all the requirements of PoFA because it was not "given" within the relevant period according to paragraph 9(4)(b).

What that meant was that as long as the drivers identity is not revealed, they cannot transfer liability from the unknown driver to the known Keeper. There is no legal obligation on the known Keeper to identify the unknown driver to an unregulated private parking company. The known Keeper and the unknown driver are separate legal entities.

The only way that the operator could identify the Keeper as the driver is if the Keeper blabs it to them, inadvertently or otherwise with silly statements along the lines of "I parked her for there" instead of only referring to the driver in the third person with "The driver parked here or there". The secret is not to tell 'em your name Pike!

So, if you've identified the driver, the "golden ticket" defence is blown. If you haven't, then keep your power dry as it will come in handy if this ever gets litigated on. However, don't worry too much because, even when they eventually issue a debt claim, the odds of it ever reaching a hearing are less than 1%. In most cases that we advise on, the claim is either struck out or discontinued.

No one who is here receiving advice and following it, pays a penny to ex-clampers like Countrywide.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Thank you for the response,

Unfortunately I believe was required to make the driver ´selection´on their first round of appealing, so I am afraid that golden ticket will have been blown. I will continue to challenge them for the sake of due process however will go all the way because it´s a problem with their interface on the app (which motorists are forced to use due to their lack of investment in ticket machines).

I´ll update as and when I hear back from them.

Many thanks

Since the second round of appeal also requires keeper of the vehicle to be identified, and an appeal cannot be made without selecting this option, do you think it would be more harmful to my case later on if I selected keeper and submitted the appeal, rather than not appealing the 2nd time at all?

Thanks

Good morning,

I have heard back from the ´Independent Appeals Service´ regarding the subject in this feed, who have, as you expected, ´dismissed´ my appeal. I still believe I was not in the wrong, could you please advise on what I should do next - if anything? My plan was to effectively ignore any further letters or emails unless they're from any authoritative body, since there doesn´t seem to be any appeal options left.

Here´s a summary of what they said, for interest:

..................................................................................................

"The Appellant challenges the parking charge on the basis that the driver paid for parking however it would appear from the comments made and evidence provided that they did not enter the sites location code correctly when making payment. I am satisfied that it is the driver's responsibility to ensure that the terms of parking are properly complied with. Signs are located throughout the site making clear the terms of parking at the location. Whether a driver feels that they have permission to park or not, the contractual terms require the driver to pay for parking using the correct location code and by not ensuring that their location was entered correctly when making payment they agree to pay the charge.

As the guidance to this appeal explains I am bound by the law of contract and cannot consider mistakes or extenuating circumstances, only legal challenges. It would appear that the payment systems were working correctly at all material times and simply that an error was made by the Appellant in not entering their location details correctly when making payment. I am satisfied that no payment was made for the vehicle registered XXXX on the day in question at this location. I appreciate that mistakes can be made, however, as the guidance to this appeal explains I have no discretion. The terms of parking have been breached by the Appellant as they did not ensure that their correct location was entered at the time payment was made and accordingly this appeal is dismissed."

..................................................................................................


Thanks in advance!

Without knowing precisely what you sent as your appeal in the first place, it is impossible to advise except that if you are adamant that you are in the right, you can ignore any appeal rejection and you now wait and see if/when they decide to make a claim in the county court.

You can safely ignore all debt recovery letters. Debt collectors are powerless to actually do anything except try and make the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay up out of ignorance and fear. Never, ever, communicate with a useless debt collector. Ignore Tham and we don't need to know about any useless letters you get from them.

If/when you receive a Letter of Claim (LoC) or an actual N1SDT Claim Form from the CNBC, come back and we can advise further.

You could query why they have not complied with Annex F.1 or F.3 of the PPSCoP and either cancelled the charge for a "minor keying error or singly reduced it to £20 for a major keying error.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2025, 02:21:18 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Good evening,

I received as expected a reject letter of appeal from the ÍAS´on 13 March stating they dismiss my appeal (as advised by the forum). I am now receiving telephone calls, text messages and and emails from ´BW Legal´demanding the sum of £170.

I haven´t replied to either the IAS or the these ´BW Legal´ characters, the only time I spoke to the,m was the first phone call when I didn´t know who they were, they asked me for my address to pass ´security checks´ to which I said, on the phone, words to the effect of I do not give out personal details over the phone.

I have attached the ´IAS´email and the communications from ´BW Legal´ for review.

If anyone has any advice on how to proceed, would be much appreciated.

https://imgur.com/a/2D96QpB


 

Block all calls and texts from BW Legal. You've already been advised that your IAS appeal was a wasted effort. There is nothing more you can do for now except to wait for the inevitable Letter of Claim (LoC) which is going to come from BW Legal in their capacity as a bulk litigator, not as a debt collector.

When you receive the LoC, come back and show us and we will provide a suitable response.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Understood, will do. Now booked. Will update in due course.

Thanks

Understood, will do. Now **blocked. Will update in due course.

Thanks
Like Like x 1 View List

Good morning,

I received the "Letter of Claim" from a company called "BW Legal" on behalf of "Countrywide Parking Management Limited". The letter has given me a deadline of 06/09/2025 to reply to them. The balance they have stated remains at the moment at £170.

Any assistance of how to proceed is very much appreciated.

The link below has the letter uploaded:
https://imgur.com/a/QhrL67A

Respond to the LoC with he following:

Quote
Subject: Countrywide Parking Management Ltd v [Keeper/Driver name] – Your Ref [xxx] – PAPDC Response (Disputed)

Date: [today]

I dispute the alleged debt in full.

Background: On 23 December 2024 I arrived at 20–28 Cotlands Road, Bournemouth. Your client mandates app-only payment. Using RingGo, the in-app map presented only a single nearby option, “Cotlands Road” (code 59037), and did not display “20–28 Cotlands Road” or “Cotlands Road Overflow”. The code stated on your client’s paperwork (819627) either could not be located via search or mapped to a point in the mid-Atlantic; exporting to Google Maps returned “no location found”. I paid promptly using the only surfaced car park. Payment was therefore made and any alleged breach stems from your client’s defective payment journey and signage, not from consumer fault.

Legal position:

1. Any term requiring use of a specific code was not transparent or prominent (CRA 2015 ss 62, 68). The mandated app did not surface the site and mis-geolocated the code.
2. Your client failed to exercise professional diligence, and the presentation of material information was misleading by omission (CPUTR 2008 regs 3, 5–6).
3. No contract was formed to pay a charge for a “wrong location” where the requirement could not reasonably be known at the decision point (Thornton; Beavis signage tests).
4. In the alternative, performance was frustrated by your client’s own system design.
5. The £70 “debt recovery” add-on is unrecoverable in law; if pleaded I will seek strike-out (CPR 3.4/27.14) and costs for unreasonable conduct.

Documents required under the Protocol (please supply within 30 days):

a) The contract (unredacted) showing your client’s authority at 20–28 Cotlands Road on 23/12/2024.
b) The full signage pack and site plan in place on the material date (entrance and terms boards), with proof of installation dates.
c) The RingGo integration pack for this site: location codes, geo-fencing, and any change logs; plus RingGo back-office logs showing all sessions and look-ups by my VRM and device in the hour spanning the event.
d) The payment reconciliation for the material hour (so the court can see payment was made at the only surfaced location).
e) All ANPR images, logs and syncing data; and your client’s policy on consideration/grace periods.
f) A copy of the Notice to Driver/Notice to Keeper and all correspondence.
g) A calculation and legal basis for any sum beyond the principal charge (you are put on notice that the £70 add-on is denied as an abuse of process).

Until you provide the above, the claim is not ready for litigation. Please place the matter on hold for 30 days in accordance with the PAPDC while these documents are supplied. Should you issue regardless, I will invite the court to apply sanctions for non-compliance and will defend.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]

[Postal address and email]

Also, send the following to the Countrywide DPO:

Quote
Subject: Data Subject Access Request – [VRM], PCN [ref], 23/12/2024

Under UK GDPR and DPA 2018, please provide all personal data you hold relating to me and the above event, including: ANPR images and logs; RingGo/payment look-ups and reconciliation; call/portal logs; internal notes; DVLA request/response; the full signage pack and site plan relied upon; and your contracts/policies relating to this site.

Please also confirm the origin of the £70 “debt recovery” figure and all third parties with whom my data has been shared.

[Name, address, email, proof of ID]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Thank you so much for your help, I will reply with the information provided.

Thank you for the continued support with this - these guys have certainly got persistence, it´s only been 9 months they have been trying to get money out of me!...

Cheers!

Good Afternoon,

I received a response from CPM which has the information they have in me and who they’ve passed it on to. I also submitted a query to BW Legal with the information you provided. I have yet to hear back from BW Legal regarding the letter I sent to them via their online platform, as of yet however.

I did since receive another physical letter asking for money from them dated 28/08, the same day I submitted the query.

Is there anything in the interim I should do?

Thanks

s there anything in the SAR info they have sent you that is not clear? Can you see anything where they have failed to properly advance this, based on your account of what has happened?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain