Author Topic: Parked at the black horse car park at Crofton Rd, Locks Bottom, Orpington. Kent.  (Read 98 times)

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Peterm77

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Hi all,
The vehicle that was hired from Hertz at Heathrow was parked at the above mentioned car park. The driver didn't notice the signs, assuming it was a place for Black Horse customers to park. The driver was on holiday from Australia and is now back here. Hertz forwarded a copy of the notice from Euro Car Parks to the customer. They want to find out if they need to pay the charge, or ignore it. Would Hertz pay on behalf of the driver? They've all ready charged £42.00 just for forwarding it.

Link below should show the pdf. The driver has looked at the car park on google earth and there are signs there. But they were not noticed.

All help appreciated.

https://drive.google.com/drive/my-drive

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b789

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Very difficult to assist or advise as there is nowhere near enough info and the link provided does not take you anywhere except your own Google Drive, if you have one.

Please read the READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide and show us the photos of the PCN and clarify the details.

Was the hirer of the vehicle visiting the UK from Australia? The way you have worded it is not clear: "The driver was on holiday from Australia and is now back here."

If Hertz have charged £42 admin fee, is it justified? What does the hire agreement say about parking charges (a speculative invoice) from an unregulated private parking company? Does the hire agreement only mention fines and penalties?

If ECP have followed the correct procedure, they will have issued a Notice to Keeper (NtK) to Hertz. Hertz will have (or should have) transferred liability from them to the Hirer and included copies of the documents required under PoFA 13(2). These are a statement signed by or on behalf of Hertz to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement, a copy of the hire agreement and a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.

ECP should then have issued a Notice to Hirer (NtH) to the person named as the Hirer. That NtH should have included copies of the three documents mentioned above. In 99.999% of cases, ECP will not have included all or any of those copies of the required documents. What that means is that the NtH fails to fully comply with the requirements of PoFA and the Hirer cannot be liable for the PCN.

Only the driver can be liable. Neither ECP not Hertz knows who was the driver. There is no legal obligation for the Hirer (or keeper) to name of identify the driver. If the Hirer wants to appeal the PCN, they should do so as the Hirer. The only way that ECP would know who was the driver is if the Hirer blabs, inadvertently or otherwise, who was driving.

If the Hirer was only visiting the UK and resides in Australia (it isn't clear), then there is nothing much they need to do. As Hertz has transferred liability, ECP cannot go back and demand that they pay if the Hirer doesn't bother to interact with them. They have no jurisdiction to try and claim any alleged debt from a n Australian resident.

If the Hirer wants to send an appeal, the following is the simplest and will stop ECP from doing much else than rejecting and issuing a POPLA code where an appeal would end this matter.

This is an appeal by the Hirer - No driver details will be given. Please do NOT try the trick of asking for driver details in order to get around the fact your NtH does not comply with PoFA paragraph 13. As there is no Hirer liability, therefore, liability cannot flow from the driver to the Hirer and so, is an automatic win at POPLA. Please cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code at which point you will auto withdraw.

As for the £42 admin charge, that is between the Hirer and Hertz. Unless the hire agreement specifically allows Hertz to charge the fee for an invoice from a private company, then the Hirer can try and claim it back or have their credit card company put a  chargeback and dispute the payment.
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Peterm77

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Thanks for the reply,

I've made the link shareable to anyone with a Google drive account... I think. Computers are not my thing unfortunately. I tried to sign up for imgur, but it said that I couldn't sign in from my location.  ???

Yes the driver was on holiday from Australia and is now back in Australia.

The company was Euro Car Parks.

I've taken a photo of the form but it's turned out rubbish. I just don't know what to do next.

b789

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That link does not work as it opens my own Google Drive account.
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

DWMB2

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Peterm77

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I've made it so that anyone with the link can read it:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U0LV6yQdhsJpuHYA2_EnY78TLXcE7VNb/view?usp=sharing

Fingers crossed.

b789

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That is just a copy of the NtK that was sent to Hertz. You cannot respond to that, it is not addressed to you.

Hertz should have followed the instructions in the third paragraph on the back of the notice. Unless they have done so, they remain liable as the keeper.

If they have done what is required and simply forwarded you a copy of the NtK, then you must wait for a new NtH to be sent to you, the Hirer. It is at this point that ECP will fail to fully comply with the requirements of PoFA in order for them to be able to hold you, the Hirer, liable for the charge.

At this point neither Hertz nor ECP know who was driving unless you, the Hirer, tells them, inadvertently or otherwise. Donít.

Whilst ECP will reject any initial appeal, a subsequent appeal to POPLA should be an easy win. More importantly though, you need to confirm with Hertz that they transferred liability to you as the Hirer. If they havenít, what you donít want is ECP sending them a reminder and the Hirer incurring more admin charges or for Hertz to simply pay it and charge back the Hirer without the Hirer being afforded an opportunity to appeal it.
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.