Author Topic: Not parked within marked bays - Beckton Triangle Car Park  (Read 2480 times)

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Not parked within marked bays - Beckton Triangle Car Park
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Just like this person https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/ukpc-parking-notice-not-parked-correctly-within-the-markings-beckton-triangle-re/ , I find myself given a charge for the same exact reason.



Driver parked on 25/11/2024 at Beckton Triangle Retail Park car park. Passenger was a blue badge holder. There were no free disabled bays, so parked on a regular bay but leaving enough space on the passenger side to allow the wheelchair user to get out of the vehicle.

PCN was issued by post on 27/11/2024. Sent appeal on 07/12/2024:




On 03/01/2025 received a rejection letter. Made an appeal to POPLA on 03/02/2025, and UKPC submitted their evidence on 11/02/2025.

In the appeal to POPLA, the same points were made that the passenger was disabled and required more space than the regular parking space allowed. A copy of the disabled badge was provided.

I need to reply by the 18th, and would like some assistance on where I stand with this?

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Re: Not parked within marked bays - Beckton Triangle Car Park
« Reply #1 on: »
Compassion is one thing any private parking companies do not have. One or more of the respected contributors will provide you with advice. Hindsight being a wonderful thing you would have been better submitting your appeal after advice. No PPC I believe will cancel a PCN unless they have no hope at all at POPLA or further down the line court. They will always try it on for obvious reasons.

Re: Not parked within marked bays - Beckton Triangle Car Park
« Reply #2 on: »
Please show us exactly what you put in your POPLA appeal and the operators evidence pack.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Not parked within marked bays - Beckton Triangle Car Park
« Reply #3 on: »
Please show us exactly what you put in your POPLA appeal and the operators evidence pack.

POPLA appeal:
Quote
I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. The passenger in the vehicle is a disabled person who requires additional space to embark/disembark the vehicle. As no vacant disabled bays were available, the size of the normal bays were not suitable to accommodate wheelchair access. They failed to notice the blue badge that had been presented on the dashboard of the vehicle. This is in breach of the Equality Act 2010. The signage is also inadequate as it cannot be ready clearly from where the vehicle was parked. This is confirmed by the evidence submitted by UKPC whereby they took a photograph of the nearest signage however this is not legible from the close distance of where the photo was taken, so it cannot be read from the distance of the parked car.







« Last Edit: February 17, 2025, 06:15:28 pm by 1921 »

Re: Not parked within marked bays - Beckton Triangle Car Park
« Reply #4 on: »
Is that the sum total of their evidence pack? As you cannot submit new evidence at this stage, all you can do is respond to their evidence. Simply copy and paste the following text into the POPLA response webform. It complies with the 10,000 character limit and does not contain any formatting:

Quote
UKPC has completely failed to address the fundamental reason why the vehicle was parked in this manner. There were no free disabled bays available at the time of parking. The vehicle was parked in a regular bay but leaving enough space on the passenger side to allow the wheelchair user to get out of the vehicle.

UKPC has not disputed that all designated disabled bays were occupied. They have not explained how the driver was expected to comply with the parking bay markings while also ensuring that the disabled passenger could safely enter and exit the vehicle. They simply state that a Blue Badge does not exempt a motorist from bay markings, ignoring the fact that the vehicle only parked this way because there was no other option nearby. They also do not explain where the driver was expected to park instead, given that all other Blue Badge bays were occupied and alternative parking further away was not a viable option due to mobility restrictions.

This is a clear failure by UKPC to engage with their obligations under the Equality Act 2010, which requires them to make reasonable adjustments for disabled motorists. Instead, they rigidly apply a parking rule without considering the practical necessity of allowing space for a wheelchair user when no disabled bays were available. Their refusal to acknowledge this is further evidence that this charge is unjustified and must be cancelled.

UKPC’s evidence pack completely fails to rebut key arguments raised in my appeal. They have ignored critical legal points, made baseless assumptions, and failed to provide evidence to justify the parking charge. Their own evidence actually supports my case.

UKPC has made an outrageous and wholly presumptuous statement in their response:

"As the driver is not the disabled badge holder they had the opportunity to seek out the terms and condition and ensure they understand them, before agreeing."

This is not only offensive but demonstrates a shocking level of ignorance and callousness from the person at UKPC who drafted it. UKPC has no knowledge of the driver’s disability status. Nowhere in their evidence do they provide any basis for claiming that the driver is not also a disabled person. The presence of a Blue Badge in the vehicle confirms that at least one occupant was disabled, but it does not mean that the driver was not also disabled or had mobility issues. This assumption is completely baseless and discriminatory.

Many disabled people do not display outwardly visible impairments, yet UKPC has taken it upon themselves to assume the driver was fully able-bodied without any evidence. This is a clear example of intellectual malnourishment on UKPC’s part, as they have completely failed to consider that disabilities are not always visible.

Instead of acknowledging that the vehicle contained a disabled passenger and that adjustments should have been made, they double down on their failure to comply with the Equality Act 2010 by making assumptions about who is or isn’t disabled. This statement alone demonstrates UKPC’s utter ignorance of disability rights, reinforcing the fact that they have not engaged with their legal duty under the Equality Act in any meaningful way.

The sheer arrogance and ignorance of this statement should be taken as further proof that UKPC does not understand, nor has it complied with, its legal obligations. Their assumption about the driver’s disability status is not only unsubstantiated but offensive and irrelevant. This highlights UKPC’s complete failure to provide a proper defence, and further supports why this appeal must be upheld.

UKPC has completely failed to address my argument that the signage was unreadable from where the vehicle was parked. They have included a single, isolated photo of a sign, but they do not reference where this sign is in relation to where the vehicle was parked. There is no evidence that the driver would have passed this specific sign or that it was visible from the parking location. UKPC has not provided a site plan showing the distribution of signs or proving that the signage was clearly positioned in the driver’s line of sight. A contract cannot be formed by hidden or poorly placed signs. For a contract to be valid, the motorist must have been given a fair opportunity to see and read the terms before parking, as established in Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking [1971]. The BPA Code of Practice requires clear and prominent signage that allows motorists to read the terms before deciding to park. UKPC’s failure to show where this sign is positioned in relation to the vehicle means they have not met this requirement.

Additionally, the photo provided by UKPC is not a close-up but a general view of the sign from approximately 8 feet away. The sign is mounted high on a pole, making it impossible to read the details. This proves my point that the terms and conditions were not readable from where the vehicle was parked. UKPC has not provided any close-up, legible image of the actual sign in situ, proving that even they cannot demonstrate that the terms were clearly visible. This means a contract could not have been formed, as per Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking, which requires key terms to be prominently displayed before a contract can be accepted. The BPA Code of Practice also requires that important terms, including the parking charge, must be clear and conspicuous. The £100 charge is buried in small text, making it impossible for any motorist to have been adequately informed before parking. UKPC’s own evidence confirms that their signage is incapable of creating a binding contract, and as such, the charge must be cancelled.

UKPC also claims that parking over the bay markings caused an obstruction to another vehicle, but their own timestamped photos show an almost empty car park. They have not provided any evidence of another vehicle attempting to use the space or being obstructed. There is no photo of another car struggling to park or any proof that this caused any practical issue. This confirms that the enforcement of this charge is not proportionate, as required by the BPA Code of Practice.

UKPC has also failed to address whether their Notice to Keeper is fully compliant with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. They claim they obtained keeper details from the DVLA, but they have not provided any evidence that their Notice to Keeper meets the strict legal requirements to hold the keeper liable. If the Notice to Keeper does not fully comply with PoFA, then UKPC can only pursue the driver. Since they do not know who was driving, they have no valid claim against the keeper.

UKPC has completely failed to rebut or properly respond to my appeal points. They have ignored their obligations under the Equality Act 2010, failed to prove that their signage was clear and capable of forming a contract, and have not provided any evidence to justify this charge.

Their own evidence actually supports my case. The signage is unreadable, meaning no contract was formed. The car park was almost empty, meaning no obstruction was caused. They have not demonstrated keeper liability, meaning the charge cannot be enforced.

Given UKPC’s failure to address these key points, the appeal must be upheld, and the parking charge must be cancelled.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Not parked within marked bays - Beckton Triangle Car Park
« Reply #5 on: »
Thanks, will send that off and await a response although have little faith that it will be upheld.

Re: Not parked within marked bays - Beckton Triangle Car Park
« Reply #6 on: »
Don't worry about it. Even if POPLA don't uphold the appeal, it is not binding on you.

No one who is here receiving advice and following it, pays a penny to UKPC.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Not parked within marked bays - Beckton Triangle Car Park
« Reply #7 on: »
POPLA have rejected the appeal:

Quote
When assessing an appeal, POPLA considers if the parking operator issued the parking charge notice correctly and if the driver complied with the terms and conditions for the use of the car park on the day. The parking operator provided evidence of the signs on the car park, which advise that a £100 PCN will be issued to drivers who do not park within marked bays. The operator has provided photographs of the vehicle parked across 2 bays. I note that the appellant says that they are appealing as the keeper and that the notice to keeper is not PoFA compliant. PoFA 2012 is a law that allows parking operators to transfer the liability to the registered keeper in the event that the driver or hirer is not identified. Parking operators have to follow certain rules including warning the registered keeper that they will be liable if the parking operator is not provided with the name and address of the driver. In this case, the PCN in question has the necessary information and the parking operator has therefore successfully transferred the liability onto the registered keeper. I will be assessing the grounds of appeal using the new Single Code of Practice which replaced the 2024 British Parking Association (BPA) Code practice and relates to all PCN’s issued on or after 1 October 2024. However, the grounds of appeal relating to signage at the site will be assessed using the 2024 BPA Code of Practice Version 9 as this still currently applies. I acknowledge that the appellant says that the signage is inadequate as it cannot be read clearly from where the vehicle was parked. Section 19.3 of the BPA code states that signs must be placed throughout the car park so that drivers have the chance to review the terms and conditions. The code confirms that these signs must be conspicuous and legible and written in intelligible language so that they are easy to see read and understand. The operator has provided multiple images of the signs within the car park and after reviewing these, I am satisfied that there are plenty of signs located within the car park and that these signs meet the requirements of section 19.3 of the Code of Practice. I am, therefore, satisfied that there was sufficient signage in place to make the driver aware of the terms and conditions of parking. I note that the appellant has also provided a photograph of the signage at the site which also demonstrates that there are signs on site. I note that the appellant says that signs cannot be read clearly from where the vehicle was parked however, as the vehicle was not parked in a disabled bay there is no requirement for this. Section 5.1 of the Single Code of Practice states that parking operators must allow a consideration period of appropriate duration, subject to the requirements set out in Annex B to allow a driver time to decide whether or not to park. In this case the operator allows a motorist 5 minutes from entering the site to park, read the terms and conditions and decide if they can comply with them, if they cannot, then they can leave without incurring a PCN. Where a motorist chooses to stay, then they are deemed to have accepted the contract offered in the signage, which in this case is to park within the markings of the bay or space and by not doing so, the motorist is in breach of the terms and conditions of parking. I respect that there were not disabled bays available, that the size of the normal bays were not suitable to accommodate wheel chair access. I acknowledge also that the passenger of the vehicle is disabled and needed additional space to get in and out of the vehicle. As the driver chose to remain in the car park, they have accepted the contract offered within the signage and have agreed to park within the marked bay. If there were no parking spaces available in the disabled parking area and the normal bays were not sufficient for their passengers needs, then the driver could have left the site and parked elsewhere. I understand that the driver displayed the blue badge, however, there is nothing within the terms and conditions shown in the signage which allows motorists to park across 2 bays if they display a blue badge. I appreciate the appellant’s comments regarding the circumstances on the date in question. POPLA does consider whether issues of discrimination have had an effect on the parking contract. We know that the Equality Act specifically protects people with a disability or protected characteristics from unfavourable treatment, and this does apply during the provision of services such as parking. In order to assess what effect the Equality Act had in the present case, we would need to be satisfied that there had been unfavourable treatment, and that the appellant’s disability/characteristic was one of the reasons driving the unfavourable treatment. In this case, the warden has seen that the vehicle is parked across 2 parking bays and a PCN was issued in accordance with the signage. Whilst I understand the reason for parking across 2 bays were due to the passenger’s needs, this was not a factor that led to the issuance of the PCN. Therefore, I would not agree with the comments that the operator has breached the Equality Act. The signage on site is clear that that vehicles must be parked only within marked bays, and photographs have been provided showing that the vehicle was not parked within a marked bay. Any driver that parks outside of a marked bay would receive a PCN. While I understand the need to park across 2 bays, this ultimately does not exempt them from the terms and conditions of the contract they entered into when parking on site. I note that the appellant says that there is no evidence to show that the vehicle caused an obstruction, however, the fact remains that the vehicle was not parked within the markings of a bay and has breached the terms and conditions. Any complaints that the appellant may have regarding the operator’s comments in their evidence pack, is not within the remit of POPLA to address. The role of POPLA is to determine whether the PCN has been issued correctly, which it has been in this case. The appellant would need to address any complaints they have regarding the operator directly to the operator. After considering the evidence from both parties, the motorist parked across 2 bays and therefore did not comply with the terms and conditions of the site. As such, I am satisfied the parking charge has been issued correctly and I must refuse the appeal. POPLA is not involved with the financial aspect of the parking charge. For any queries regarding payments, the appellant will need to contact the parking operator directly.

Also received this letter from UKPC. Any help on how I should proceed would be greatly appreciated, I do not wish to pay a single penny to these scammers.


Re: Not parked within marked bays - Beckton Triangle Car Park
« Reply #8 on: »
More evidence as if any were required, that POPLA assessors can be as moronic as they like and get away with it.

Never mind, the POPLA decision is not binding on you. You do not have to pay anything. If you continue to follow the advice, you will not pay a penny.

You can ignore the letter from UKPC. You will also receive some debt recovery letters threatening all sorts of stuff. Again, you can safely in=gnore all of this. Debt collectors are powerless to actually do anything except to try and make the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay up out of ignorance and fear.

When you receive a Letter of Claim (LoC) come back and we will provide a response. You will, in due course, receive an N1SDT Clim Form from the CNBC. Again, we will provide a suitable defence. Eventually, I can tell you with greater than 99% certainty that the claim will either be struck out or discontinued and that will be the end of the matter.

As I say, you can safely ignore everything else you receiver except the LoC and the claim. Come back when you do receive those.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: Not parked within marked bays - Beckton Triangle Car Park
« Reply #9 on: »
Hi all, I've now received the Notice of debt recovery letter, although it arrived in the post yesterday (23rd June) but was dated 11 June.

According to the letter I have 14 days from the date on the letter, which would be tomorrow (25th).

Any advice on how to proceed with this would be welcomed  :)




Re: Not parked within marked bays - Beckton Triangle Car Park
« Reply #10 on: »
Ok reading through some of the other posts with this company, I guess i just ignore until i receive the Letter of Claim (LoC)

Re: Not parked within marked bays - Beckton Triangle Car Park
« Reply #11 on: »
I'm not sure which bit of this was not understood:

You can ignore the letter from UKPC. You will also receive some debt recovery letters threatening all sorts of stuff. Again, you can safely in=gnore all of this. Debt collectors are powerless to actually do anything except to try and make the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay up out of ignorance and fear.

As I say, you can safely ignore everything else you receiver except the LoC and the claim. Come back when you do receive those.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Not parked within marked bays - Beckton Triangle Car Park
« Reply #12 on: »
Letter of claim has been received, how do I proceed from here?


Re: Not parked within marked bays - Beckton Triangle Car Park
« Reply #13 on: »
Email DCB Legal with the following response to info@dcblagal.co.uk and CC yourself:

Quote
Subject: Response to your Letter of Claim Ref: [reference number]

Dear Sirs,

Your Letter Before Claim contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of the evidence your client places reliance upon, putting it in clear breach of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.

As a supposed firm of solicitors, one would expect you to comply with paragraphs 3.1(a)–(d), 5.1 and 5.2 of the Protocol, and paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. These provisions exist to facilitate informed discussion and proportionate resolution. You may wish to reacquaint yourselves with them.

The Civil Procedure Rules 1998, Pre-Action Conduct and Protocols (Part 3), require the exchange of sufficient information to understand each other’s position. Part 6 clarifies that this includes disclosure of key documents relevant to the issues in dispute.

Your template letter refers to a “contract” yet encloses none. That omission undermines the only foundation upon which your client’s claim allegedly rests. It is not possible to engage in meaningful pre-litigation dialogue while you decline to furnish the very document you purport to enforce.

I confirm that, once I am in receipt of a Letter Before Claim that complies with para 3.1(a), I shall seek advice and submit a formal response within 30 days, as required. Accordingly, please provide:

1. A copy of the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) and any notice chain relied upon to assert PoFA 2012 liability.

2. A copy of the contract you allege exists between your client and the driver, being an actual photograph of the sign(s) in place on the material date (not a stock image), together with a site plan showing the sign locations.

3. The precise wording of the clause(s) allegedly breached.

4. The written agreement between your client and the landowner evidencing standing/authority to enforce and to litigate.

5. A breakdown of the sums claimed, identifying whether the principal sum is claimed as consideration or damages, and whether the £70 “debt recovery” add-on includes VAT.


I am entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction, and I require it to meet my own obligation under paragraph 6(b).

If you fail to provide the above, I will treat that as non-compliance with the PAPDC and Pre-Action Conduct and will raise a formal complaint to the SRA regarding your conduct. I reserve the right to place this correspondence before the Court and to seek appropriate sanctions and costs (including, where appropriate, a stay and/or other case management orders).

Until your client complies and provides the requested material, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim or to consider my position. It would be premature and a waste of costs and court time to issue proceedings. Should you do so, I will seek immediate case management relief pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order compelling provision of the above.

Please note, I will not engage with any web portal; I will only respond by email or post.

Yours faithfully,

[Your name]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain