Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hello everyone,

I'm hoping to get some advice on a tricky situation I’m facing with multiple NTKs issued by Euro Car Parks at the Sainsbury’s branch in Horsham. Here’s a summary of my situation:

https://ibb.co/BsMkzPp
https://ibb.co/bLHnRzW
https://ibb.co/MpSM0xF
https://ibb.co/BNkKGnQ
https://ibb.co/74MpbP6
https://ibb.co/L0yC7Lb
https://ibb.co/chtjHrQ
https://ibb.co/G98xHyk

We recently moved to the Horsham area from North London, where we were used to Sainsbury’s branches without parking restrictions. As a result, The driver was unaware of the need to validate the purchase receipt at the parking machine outside this branch. Unfortunately, we have since received several NTKs while the car was parked there as a paying customer, and despite providing bank statements as evidence, we are struggling to get them all cancelled.

* Reason for NTK: A voucher was not validated at the kiosk during the time period the vehicle was on site *

Here’s the full timeline:

1. Unaware of Parking System: We moved to Horsham and didn’t pay much notice to the parking system at Sainsbury’s, as the branches we previously shopped at (in North London and Chichester) didn’t have any similar parking restrictions.

2. Multiple NTKs: The keeper was issued several NTKs, but due to an oversight, didn’t update the address on the car logbook (V5C) after moving. As a result, NTKs went to the old and new addresses, which led to some letters being delayed or not arriving at all. Here’s the breakdown of the NTKs & Final Notification Letter:

Final Notication letter 1: Event date 17/08/2024, letter dated 25/09/2024 (sent to old address).
PCN 2: Event date 24/08/2024, issued 04/09/2024 (sent to old address).
PCN 3: Event date 14/09/2024, issued 20/09/2024 (sent to old address).
PCN 4: Event date 25/09/2024, issued 02/10/2024 (sent to new address).
PCN 5: Event date 26/09/2024, issued 03/10/2024 (sent to new address).

Additionally, the keeper received a Debt Recovery letter dated 29/10/2024, which was sent to the old address.

3. Contacting Sainsbury’s: the keeper visited and spoke with staff at the customer service desk on 7th October 2024, and they were able to cancel one PCN after verifying their bank statements. The date of the event was 07/08/2024 and the NTK was issued on 15/08/2024. However, the other NTKs remain unresolved.

4. Sainsbury’s Online Support Response: the keeper reached out to Sainsbury’s online support, hoping for assistance in canceling the remaining NTKs. Unfortunately, their response stated that parking conditions are displayed clearly and that Euro Car Parks issues PCNs as necessary. They suggested the keeper appeals directly to Euro Car Parks. The email reply was on 2nd November 2024.

I’m currently unsure how best to proceed. My main concerns are:

- How to effectively argue for cancellation, given that the keeper was a legitimate customer on all dates.
- The mixed addresses on the notices and the delayed receipt of certain letters, which has added confusion.

Any insights on whether I might have a good case for appeal, or how to handle the matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Need to see the back of at least one of those Notices to Keeper (NtK). We are not interested, and neither should you be, in any debt collector letters. They can be safely ignored as they are powerless to do anything and you can use them as kindling or to line the bottom of a litter tray.

An interesting thing is the reminder you've shown us dated 25th September. Did you receive a windscreen Notice to Driver (NtD)? The letter quotes Keeper liability under PoFA 8(2)(b) which only applies if a windscreen NtD was given.

So, please clarify whether you received an NtD before the postal NtK and which dates. We need to know the date the NtD was given and the date the NtK was issued for each Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

Regarding the fob off by Sainsbury's customer service telling you to appeal to ECP, you must go as high up the management food chain when dealing with this. Write to the CEO and get them to have the appropriate underling deal with it. If you can evidence having spent money at the store each time you received a PCN, all the more so, that you complain that the signage is does not make it clear that validation of receipts is required.

Having their agent issue £100 invoices to their customers, especially regular ones such as yourselves, is not going to lead to much repeat business in future, especially once you warn all your friends, family and acquaintances about this rotten practice. Sainsbury's are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agent. If they say they cannot get the PCNs cancelled, ask them who is the organ-grinder and who is the monkey in their contractual relationship with ECP.

So, did you receive NtDs before the NtKs and if so, the dates you received the NtDs on the windscreen and the date of issue of the relative NtK. Also, we need to see the back of at least one of those NtKs, the original, not the reminder.

The PCN that was issued for the event on 17th August... you have not shown us the Notice to Keeper (NtK), only the reminder and the DRA letter. According to the reminder letter, a Notice to Driver (NtD) was affixed to the vehicle for that one.

Did you receive an NtD for the parking event on 17th August? If so, was it appealed before the NtK was issued? For an NtD, if it is not appealed, they can only request the Keepers DVLA data no earlier than 28 days after the NtD was issued. The NtK follow up for an un-appealed NtD cannot be issued later than day 56 after the NtD was given.

The only complete evidence shown so far, is for the event on 26th September where we have now seen both sides of the NtK. That one appears to be a straight forward postal NtK which is not quite fully compliant with all the requirements of PoFA in that there's no "invitation" for the keeper to pay the charge as required by paragraph 9(2)(e)(i).

The last day to appeal that PCN was 31st October. Not that it would have been successful but as that deadline has passed, they will not provide a POPLA code. No big deal for a single PCN as these are simple to defend in a court claim and have a 99% likelihood of being discontinued.

As the appeal dates for the other PCNs have all passed, you are in a waiting game. You can safely disregard all debt collector letters. They are powerless and should be ignored. We don't need to know about those. What you are waiting for is a Letter of Claim (LoC), usually issued by DCB Legal which gives you 30 days (not 14) to pay or they will issue a claim.

Any problem may come if they decide to make a single claim for all the PCNs at the same time. It becomes more cost effective for them to continue a claim in that scenario. Still easy to defend but reduces the odds of a simple discontinuation. We will have to wait and see.

So, was the PCN for the 17th August an NtD followed by an NtK or was an attempt made to appeal the NtD before 28 days had passed since the parking event?

Have you been on to the website as though to appeal and checked to see what, if any, additional photographic evidence they hold for each PCN? You say they don't have a warden patrol that issues PCNs as windscreen NtDs yet all their reindeer letters are claiming that they hold the keeper liable because an NtD and subsequent NtK was not responded to.

When you check for whatever additional evidence they have, please show us, for each PCN.

If the do have photos of an NtD attached to the vehicle, that would explain a lot. However, if each NtD was not in place when the driver returned to the car, this could show suspicious "ghost" ticketing where the operative, removes the NtD after photographing it.

If they only hold ANPR entry/exit photos, then there is something wrong with the way they are sending out reminders.