Author Topic: GroupNexus PCN – Warrington Hospital - New app offered "autopay" but it wasn't enabled at the time  (Read 88 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

CaffeineJunkiee

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
On 31st July 2024, I parked at Warrington hospital for my son's appointment. The hospital had introduced a new parking app, Trust, which I registered and enabled “autopay”. The app showed a parking session in progress, so I assumed it was working.

Two days later, I found no payment was taken. The app developer informed me Warrington hospital didn’t have autopay enabled.
On 21st August 2024, my leasing company forwarded a PCN (PCN1) issued on 9th August. I appealed to GroupNexus, received confirmation, then got another PCN (PCN2) for the same session. I appealed again, noting the duplication, and received confirmation.

On 4th October, my appeal for PCN1 was rejected. I appealed to POPLA on 5th October, explaining the app issue and duplicate PCNs. POPLA rejected my appeal on 7th January 2025, but the email went to Spam. Now, GroupNexus have sent a letter informing me the fine has increased to £120.

Given the signage simply said to pay via the app, and the app does not tell you that autopay isn't enabled despite showing that your session has been recorded whilst its active, it seems extremely unfair. Naively, I assumed some common sense would be applied. Ironically, a week later the hospital enabled AutoPay.

Can anyone offer any advice to whether I'm liable or not, and how best to proceed?

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


b789

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4244
  • Karma: +188/-5
    • View Profile
    • GullibleTree
You are not liable. However, did you admit to being the driver in your appeals?

Keep handy any evidence you have of the fact that the autopay feature only went live after the alleged contravention. Do you have any form of electronic receipt that you had set up autopay for the session?

Please show us the initial and duplicate Notice to Keeper (NtK). We do not need to see any reminder NtK. Are you sure that the second NtK you received wasn’t just a reminder for the first one?

Also show us exactly what you put in your POPLA appeal.

Have you asked the hospital PALS to get the PCN cancelled?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

CaffeineJunkiee

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Hi

Thanks for the quick reply. The short answer is that I probably did admit to being the driver. My lease company provided my details, I just appealed on auto-pilot.

Both PCNs (is this the same as NTK? Apologies - first time ticket receiver) can be seen here, along with the POPLA summary. I can't find my original appeal as it doesn't let you view it - lesson learnt: keep a copy.

I haven't approached PALS, I didn't even realise they'd be able to help. I will do that this week - anything specific I should say (or avoid saying)?

b789

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4244
  • Karma: +188/-5
    • View Profile
    • GullibleTree
The Parking Charge Notice (PCN) was issued to the registered keeper, Octopus Leasing, as a postal Notice to Keeper (NtK). It was not addressed to you because you are not the registered keeper. You are the Hirer.

Octopus only provided your details as the Hirer to GroupNexus. They have no idea who was driving.

GroupNexus then sent you, the Hirer, a postal Notice to Hirer (NtH). You only had to appeal the NtH because that is the only document in your name. However, GroupNexus has not complied with all the requirements to hold you, the Hirer, liable for the charge. They have no idea who the driver is, unless you blab it to them, inadvertently or otherwise.

All you had to do is appeal the PCN as the Hirer and tell them that you cannot be liable. Only the driver can be liable and, as long as they don’t know the drivers identity, there would be nothing they can do about it.

However, you didn’t appeal on that basis and you assumed two identical PCNs for the same alleged contravention had been issued. The feckwit POPLA assessor didn’t pick up on that either. Never mind, their decision is not binding on you.

There are several very serious legal and procedural errors made by GroupNexus (GN) that you must deal with. Before I go into too much detail, check with PALS and if they are not prepared to get the PCN cancelled, tell them that the NHS Trust is jointly and severally liable for the serious breaches by their agent.

The first breach by GN is that the Notice to Keeper (NtK) issued to the lease company and the subsequent Notice to Hirer (NtH) issued to the hirer should have the same PCN reference number.

The parking operator is required to follow the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4, which sets out the process for transferring liability from a lease company (keeper) to the hirer. When the lease company provides the hirer’s details and a copy of the relevant lease documents, the parking operator must issue a fresh Notice to Hirer (NtH), but it should be linked to the same PCN reference number as the original Notice to Keeper (NtK).

That is a serious procedural error by GN and is also a breach of PoFA if they are trying to hold the hirer liable.

Key Issues with This 'NtH':

1. Incorrect PCN Reference Number:

• The NtH should retain the same PCN number as the original NtK. Issuing a different reference number implies they are treating it as a new charge, which is not permitted under PoFA.
• If they have assigned a different PCN number, they appear to be attempting to restart the process incorrectly.

2. Failure to Identify the Notice as an 'NtH':

• PoFA explicitly requires that a Notice to Hirer (NtH) should make it clear that it is being issued to the hirer after receiving their details from the lease company.
• The notice must not falsely claim that the operator obtained the hirer's details from the DVLA. That is a lie—they got the details from the lease company, not from the DVLA.

3. Misrepresentation of Liability Transfer Process:

• The statement: “We have checked YOUR vehicle details with the DVLA” is factually false because:

• The operator cannot obtain the hirer's details from the DVLA, only the lease company’s details.
• The lease company does not and cannot identify the driver.

• This is misleading and is grounds for a formal complaint to the BPA.

4. PoFA Non-Compliance:

• Under PoFA Schedule 4, Paragraph 14, to hold the hirer liable, the operator must:

• Issue a valid NtH within 21 days of receiving the hirer's details from the lease company.
• Include mandatory documents, such as a copy of the lease/hire agreement.
• Correctly inform the hirer of their potential liability under PoFA.

• If the notice fails to meet these requirements, they cannot hold the hirer liable.

Even though you are not the registered keeper, as the Hirer, you can and should lodge a formal complaint with the DVLA because GN falsely stated that they obtained the Hirer’s details from the DVLA. This is a serious misrepresentation of data access rights and breaches DVLA regulations governing access to vehicle keeper data.

As this warrants both a formal complaint to GN and the DVLA, here are the main point for each formal complaint:

DVLA Complaint:

1. False Claim of Data Access

• The Notice incorrectly states that the operator obtained the Hirer’s details from the DVLA.
• In reality, the operator obtained the Hirer’s details from the lease company, not the DVLA.
• This misrepresentation of how personal data was obtained is a breach of DVLA's data protection policies.

2. Misuse of DVLA-Provided Keeper Data

• The operator originally accessed the DVLA database to get details of the lease company.
• The lease company then provided the Hirer’s details separately.
• The operator should not claim that they accessed the Hirer’s details via the DVLA when they did not.
• This is a deliberate misrepresentation to falsely assert direct DVLA verification.

3. Breach of the BPA/IPC PPSCoP and DVLA’s KADOE Agreement

• Parking operators must follow the DVLA's Keeper at Date of Event (KADOE) contract when accessing vehicle keeper data.
• Misrepresenting the source of data undermines public trust and breaches the terms under which GroupNexus is allowed to access DVLA records.
• The DVLA takes a dim view of operators who misuse or misrepresent how they obtained personal data.

GroupNexus Complaint:

You, the Hirer, should write a strongly worded complaint demanding:

1. An explanation for the procedural errors, including:

• Why the Notice to Hirer was not identified as an NtH.
• Why the PCN reference number changed between the NtK and the alleged NtH.
• Why the notice falsely claims the operator accessed the Hirer’s details from the DVLA, when it is impossible for them to do so.

2. Confirmation of a Serious Error in Process

• If the Notice sent to the Hirer was actually a duplicate of the NtK rather than a compliant NtH, then PoFA has not been followed.
• The operator cannot hold the Hirer liable because they did not issue a valid Notice to Hirer under PoFA Schedule 4, Paragraph 14.
• The issuance of a new PCN reference number suggests an attempt to restart the process, which is not permitted.

3. Confirmation of what steps they will take to rectify the situation

• The Hirer should demand that GroupNexus acknowledges their error in writing.
• The Hirer should also insist on a response regarding whether similar errors have occurred with other motorists.

4. Escalation Warning

• If GroupNexus does not provide a satisfactory response, the Hirer will escalate the matter to the BPA, DVLA, and possibly the ICO for data misuse.

If you want, I can draft a formal complaint letter for GroupNexus and a separate complaint email to the DVLA to ensure everything is properly worded and structured. Let me know how you'd like to proceed.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2025, 02:11:52 am by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

CaffeineJunkiee

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Thank you for all this - it’s immensely helpful. PALS is my next point of call, I’ll report back how I get on.

CaffeineJunkiee

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
PALS have confirmed pack that the parking dept have requested GroupNexus cancel both PCNs.  ;D

Do you have any idea if GroupNexus can refuse, or is that down to individual contracts etc? Also, should I be sending any correspondence to GroupNexus, given they were demanding payment on/before 20th (last letter here)

Thank you!

b789

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4244
  • Karma: +188/-5
    • View Profile
    • GullibleTree
DO you have it in writing that PALS have asked GN to cancel the PCN? I doubt that GN would refuse a request if they want to keep the contract.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

CaffeineJunkiee

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Yes, they confirmed via email.

“Thank you for your email. We are sorry to hear of your experience. We escalated your concerns to the carparking team and we have been advised that the fine has been sent for cancellation.”
Like Like x 1 Winner Winner x 1 View List