Author Topic: Euro Car Parks PCN - Vehicle not authorised to park - M&B The Wilton, Middleton M24 4RF  (Read 147 times)

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pickle2000

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I, the registered keeper, received this PCN in the post, today, 18th November.





On the day in question, 5th November, the driver was meeting an ex-employee for the ex-employee to return the organisation’s IT equipment.

The driver arrived at 11:45, parked up in the first available space, and got out of the car. The driver and ex-employee exchanged the equipment in the car park, chatted for a short while, and parted ways.

The driver then left at 12:00.

Contextual information: the car park seems to be for both the pub, Wilton Arms, and the hotel, Wilton Hotel, which are two separate buildings but seem to be shown as the same business (Wilton Arms Hotel) on Google Maps. The driver parked next to the pub, not noticing the hotel to the rear of the car park. There is a small sign outside the pub entrance saying to input registration when entering the pub to validate parking. The pub opens at midday on Mondays, so would have been closed when the driver arrived, though the driver did not check whether the pub was open or not at the time. I nor the driver cannot confirm whether there is a parking validation machine in either the pub or hotel reception.

Photos below to show layout and car park signage.

Can you please advise?

Many thanks





« Last Edit: November 18, 2024, 02:24:15 pm by pickle2000 »

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b789

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Please show us the back of the Notice to Keeper (NtK).
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

pickle2000

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Added reverse of letter to original post.

b789

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I will provide the arguments to use in an appeal. However, it is highly unlikely that any appeal would succeed. Even a secondary appeal to POPLA is not likely to succeed but it will be worth giving it a go.

The most likely outcome will be an eventual debt claim in the ultimate dispute resolution service, the small claims track of the county court. The outcome of a claim, which would be issued through DB Legal and defended with a template defence we provide, the eventual outcome will be a discontinuation. I say that with greater than 99% certainty.

In the meantime here are your arguments for the POPLA appeal. The main point of the initial appeal being to get a POPLA code once it is rejected:

The pub was closed when the driver parked, so it was impossible to comply with the requirement to register the vehicle. If no alternative registration process was indicated (e.g., via a hotel reception), the terms were unreasonable.

For the sign to form a valid contract, it must present a genuine offer. If the pub was closed, the offer was effectively null and void during the time the driver was there. For a contract to be valid, there must be a clear offer and an acceptance of terms.

The sign specifies that "guests must register their full and correct vehicle registration details via the console in the pub." If the pub was closed at the time, this term was impossible to comply with. The sign does not mention whether the car park is monitored 24/7. It does not mention what alternative arrangements exist when the pub is closed. These ambiguities in the terms are typically interpreted in favour of the consumer under English contract law.

For now, you simply use the following as your appeal to ECP, the point being to get the POPLA code. You are appealing as the Keeper:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. ECP has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. ECP have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2024, 02:44:24 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

pickle2000

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Thank you for your help - I’ll give it a go and see how far I get.

pickle2000

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Hi, it’s taken some time but the process at POPLA has completed and sadly the appeal has been unsuccessful.<br></br><br></br>It would be very much appreciated if someone could assist with the best course of action from here please?<br></br><br></br>Please see details below:<br></br><br></br>Assessor summary of operator case<br></br>The parking operator has issued the parking charge notice (PCN) for your vehicle was not authorised to park.<br></br><br></br>Assessor summary of your case<br></br>The appellant has raised the following points from their grounds of appeal. • The terms of the site were unreasonable and because they could not possibly be met at the time of this event. • They point out the pub was closed and there was no alternative way or premises in which the validate the event. • The contract offered in the signage was null and void on this basis. • There has to be a clear offer and acceptance of the terms. • They quote the signage. • The signage does not mention if the car park is monitored on a 24-hour basis. • It does not mention what alternative arrangements exist when the pub is closed. • They appeal on the basis of ambiguous terms. After reviewing the parking operator’s evidence, the appellant largely reiterates their grounds of appeal. The above will be considered in my determination of this appeal.<br></br><br></br>Assessor supporting rational for decision<br></br>The appellant has been identified as the registered keeper of the vehicle. The PCN has been issued in accordance with the Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA) and no driver has been named. As such, I am considering the appellant’s grounds to assess the registered keeper’s liability for the PCN. When assessing an appeal POPLA considers if the parking operator has issued the parking charge notice correctly and if the driver has complied with the terms and conditions for the use of the car park. In this case the signs of the car park in question advise that this is a: “GUEST ONLY CAR PARK” and that guests need to register inside the premises for a parking permit. The appellant’s grounds confirm the motorist could not enter the premises this day, and therefore I am satisfied they could not validate their stay as a guest of the facility, nor could they be a guest of the facility at a time the premises were closed. While I appreciate the appellant has made a fundamental challenge to the application of the advertised parking contract and has stated the terms are ambiguous and not clearly communicated to be applicable at all times, I am fully satisfied the primary condition to be a guest of the facility is clear. A motorist may reasonably enter any such car park to review the terms but must then make a decision as to whether to remain on site, thus accepting the parking contract as written, or to reject it, by exiting within a reasonable period. In this regard, there is no requirement for any such signage to provide alternative ways to validate the stay if the premises it serves are closed or to advise if the area is monitored 24 hours day, as the way to comply with the contract is clear and the way to reject the contract is to not use this private land site. Therefore, I am not able to concur with the appellant’s grounds that the contract is null and void in this case. The Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice (The Code) sets the standards its parking operators need to comply with. Section 3.1.3 of the Single Code of Practice contains the requirements for signs displaying the terms and conditions. The signs must be placed throughout the site, so that drivers have the opportunity to read them when parking or leaving their vehicle. The terms and conditions must be clear and unambiguous, using a font and contrast that is be conspicuous and legible. Despite the appellant’s challenge to signage in this appeal, I am satisfied these requirements have been met. Further to this, the operator’s evidence shows the vehicle in question was seen to be on site for a period of 15 minutes in total at a relatively small car park. The appellant has not provided an account of how this time was used at any stage of appeal. Therefore, I am wholly reliant on an assessment of the length of time taken on site to consider if a parking contract was formed this day. Section 5.1 of the Single Code of Practice states that parking operators must allow a consideration period of appropriate duration, subject to the requirements set out in Annex B to allow a driver time to decide whether or not to park. In this case the applicable consideration period is a minimum of 5 minutes. In the absence of an account of how the additional 10 minutes was used by the motorist in this case, I must conclude the minimum consideration period was applicable to this event, and that by remaining on site for 15 minutes in total, the motorist accepted the terms of the parking contract in place, of which the appellant’s own grounds have confirmed they could not meet at the time. The signage is clear that a PCN will be issued for a failure to register to park, and the appellant has been equally clear that the motorist could not meet this condition at the time of the event. After considering the evidence from both parties, the motorist remained on site without being able to register and therefore breached the terms and conditions. As such, I am satisfied the parking charge has been issued correctly and I must refuse the appeal.

b789

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What did you send as your POPLA appeal? You asked for advice and we provided an initial appeal which was always going to be rejected but you did not ask for advice on how to proceed with POPLA.

From reading the assessment, you didn’t argue the necessary points. The NtK is definitely not fully compliant with PoFA and is also in breach of the PPSCoP.

Never mind. An unsuccessful POPLA decision is not binding on you and has no bearing on anything going forwards if you are prepared to fight this.

If you are, please don’t just rush in and do anything without asking first. If you fight this, the most likely outcome is a court claim which is either struck out or discontinued.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain