Author Topic: PCM - Parked Outside of the Confines of a Marked Bay - High Point Village UB3  (Read 5088 times)

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So just edit that one point. I am flying more or less blind here. Use common sense to edit it if necessary.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Thank you for the clarification; will get that sent. I wasn't able to modify the earlier posts to update image links, so I've relinked the (missing) images from posts #1 and #8 here.







The location is a very well known entrapment area. The invoice has been issued because the driver is alleged to have breached a contractual sign. Keep in mind that any contract requires three elements:

1. An offer
2. Acceptance
3. Consideration

On what planet is a sign that says: "NO STOPPING"; "£100 charge if you stop on this road" a contract capable of offering anything capable of being considered?

1. Offer
That is not an offer. It prohibits stopping entirely; there is no permission being granted on any terms. You cannot "accept" a prohibition — the only logical meaning is “do not stop”. If a driver does stop, they have breached a prohibition, not accepted an offer. The only possible legal basis would be trespass, not contract.

2. Acceptance
Even if one were to argue that the act of stopping constitutes acceptance, it would be a perverse interpretation: a motorist cannot accept terms they are forbidden from engaging with. The moment the sign tells you “No stopping”, any alleged contract collapses because there is nothing to accept — only a warning not to act.

3. Consideration
For consideration to exist, the parking company must confer some benefit (e.g. permission to park or stop). Here, they confer none — they expressly withhold permission. The driver gains nothing they are permitted to do, and the operator provides no benefit or licence in exchange. Without consideration, the supposed contract is void.

Legal analysis
Courts have repeatedly found that prohibitive signs cannot create contracts. Relevant reasoning can be seen in:
PCM (UK) Ltd v Bull et al (2016, unreported, Oxford County Court) — HHJ Harris QC held that a “No parking” sign was forbidding and therefore incapable of forming a contract.
Vehicle Control Services v Ward (2018, Sheff. CC, appeal) — though it concerned stopping on airport land, the same principle was raised: where signage is prohibitive, it cannot form a contract.

Conclusion
This sign is purely prohibitive, not contractual.

Do you need any more convincing that they are on very shaky ground and they know it because they have hired the utter incompetents at Moorside Legal to act for them. I can guarantee that any claim they eventually issue will not even comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a) and can be easily argued on technicality failures alone.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Thank you for the detailed reply b789.

So, the email was sent on Tuesday, and Moorside have just responded today (hopefully they are getting sick of us), with the below:

We write in relation to the above matter.

The PCN was issued for Parked outside of the confines of a marked bay High Point Village.

We are unable to provide the site map you require we have already provided all evidence and information from our client.

By entering and parking the vehicle on our client's private land, you agreed to enter into a contract with our client and to be bound by the terms and conditions of that contract. The terms and conditions were clearly displayed in prominent places. Due to your failure to comply with the terms and conditions, our client has issued the PCN.
 
 
Considering the evidence, we are satisfied that the PCN has been issued in line with industry standards and is compliant with the International Parking Community’s (IPC) code of practice. The signage of the car park also complies with the International Parking Community’s Code of Practice.

 It is unclear why you would need to inspect any agreement between our client and the landowner as you are not party to that agreement, not could it aid your dispute or any potential defence.
below is a breakdown:
 
Why is there an additional £70 added to the PCN amount?
Because the Parking Charge remained unpaid after it was due. Our Client made you aware that additional charges could be applied to the Parking Charge if it was not paid on time. They informed you of this on the parking signs and on any notices either placed on the vehicle or sent to you by post.
 
 

How is the £70 made up?
£70 is the amount set out in both the British Parking Association and International Parking Association Codes of Practice as the amount which may be added to a Parking Charge when a Parking Charge remains unpaid and when further recovery is required. Our Client is a member of ipc which is a government approved Accredited Trade Association (ATA) for Private Parking. Our Client adheres to the ATA’s Code of Practice. The £70 is a charge levied by our Client (the Parking Operator) to protect their legitimate interests. (Our Client’s legitimate interests for charging and additional fee is to encourage payment when the Parking Charge becomes due and to avoid the need for debt recovery.)
Please note that we will not be addressing any further correspondence related to disputes of the same nature, as we have already provided you with a response. However, should you wish to raise a new dispute, we will investigate the matter further and respond accordingly.

 
We ask that you make the full payment of £170.00 within 7 days of receipt of this email.
 
 
You can make payment in the following ways: 
Contact us on 0330 822 9950 (our opening times are Monday- Friday 9:00- 17:00);
portal.moorsidelegal.co.uk - Login to our portal
https://pay.moorside.legal - Quick Pay
 
 
If you fail to respond or make payment, we may be instructed by our client to issue legal proceedings against you. This will incur further costs and fees that will be added to the outstanding balance. You may wish to seek independent legal advice. 
 
 
Yours sincerely,
Moorside Legal
« Last Edit: October 31, 2025, 11:14:07 am by Starworshipper »

That's boxed Moorside into a corner: they’ve now expressly admitted (a) they can’t supply a site plan, (b) they won’t supply landowner authority, and (c) they intend to stop corresponding—each point being fatal under the PAPDC.

The breakdown of the contractual elements and the prohibitive-sign issue is exactly what will unravel any claim. A “no stopping” or “park only within marked bays” notice doesn’t convey any offer or consideration; it’s a prohibition, so the only conceivable cause of action would be trespass (and only the landowner could bring that). Once you add that the claim would arise on land likely not “relevant land” for PoFA, they’re left with no lawful basis to pursue the keeper at all.

I suggest you send a final response to the utter incompetents at Moorside as follows:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Your latest message confirms that your firm cannot produce the site plan or the landowner contract—both being core documents under the PAPDC and PD-PACP. You have therefore failed to comply with pre-action requirements.

For the avoidance of doubt, the signage you rely upon is purely prohibitive. A sign that forbids stopping or parking outside marked bays cannot constitute an offer, provides no consideration, and cannot create a binding contract. Your client’s only conceivable cause of action would be in trespass, which they are not entitled to pursue.

If you issue proceedings before curing your non-compliance, I will apply for an immediate stay under PD-PACP ¶15(b) and seek costs on the basis of unreasonable conduct. Any such claim will also be opposed on the merits: the signage is forbidding and incapable of contractual effect.

Do not contact me again unless you are serving a compliant Letter of Claim accompanied by the required documents. Further repetitive or non-compliant correspondence will be placed before the court and the SRA.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]

This closes the loop as it shows you’ve allowed every opportunity for compliance, demonstrates understanding of the legal deficiencies, and leaves a clear paper trail of their failures for later use in court or an SRA complaint.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Once again, many thanks for all the great support and information you have provided, b789.

So the text you supplied was immediately emailed as per usual, and although they’ve been quiet for a while, just today another ‘begging’ email was received from Moorside.

You did say to send that ‘final response’; should we now ignore these types of emails, going forward?:


We write in relation to the above matter.
 
Regarding your request for a site plan or the landowner contract, we are unclear as to why you would need to review any agreement between our client and the landowner, as you are not a party to that agreement and it would not assist with your dispute or any potential defence.

As previously mentioned, we are satisfied that the PCN has been issued in line with industry standards and is compliant with the International Parking Community’s (IPC) code of practice. The signage of the car park also complies with the International Parking Community’s Code of Practice.

We ask that you make the full payment of £170.00 within 7 days of receipt of this email.
 
You can make payment in the following ways: 
Contact us on 0330 822 9950 (our opening times are Monday- Friday 9:00- 17:00);
portal.moorsidelegal.co.uk - Login to our portal
https://pay.moorside.legal - Quick Pay
 
If you fail to respond or make payment, we may be instructed by our client to issue legal proceedings against you. This will incur further costs and fees that will be added to the outstanding balance. You may wish to seek independent legal advice. 
 
Yours sincerely,
Moorside Legal



Regarding your request for a site plan or the landowner contract, we are unclear as to why you would need to review any agreement between our client and the landowner, as you are not a party to that agreement and it would not assist with your dispute or any potential defence.

Errr… because it proves standing to bring a claim in the first place!

It’s exactly the same as me sticking a sign up on some waste ground saying that anyone who steps on this ground will be charged £50. If someone refuses to pay and I try to take them to court over it, I first have to prove my “standing” to be able to sue that person in the first place.

I wouldn’t bother responding again. It is clear you are dealing with a firm of intellectually malnourished wannabe legals that operate at the very edge of lawfulness. Bottom-dwellers, equivalent to the brown smelly stuff you don’t want to tread in.

Just wait for the claim to arrive.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain