Author Topic: Court Claim for Not purchasing a ticket (I did)  (Read 1493 times)

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OD123

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Court Claim for Not purchasing a ticket (I did)
« on: August 08, 2024, 05:58:01 pm »
I got a ton of what i assumed to be scam/bait letters from a legal firm which reperesents euro car parks, the company is named DCB legal fwiw. I ignored these letters as I thought they were bullshit and I have always paid for parking.

Today I got a claim form from the civil national business centre in Northampton, which is an official letter, asking me to defend myself or pay £300~.

The fine relates to June 2021.
I don't have an actual physical ticket as they started sending these letters around 1 year after the date.

The machine in the car park sometimes printed tickets, but sometimes it was broken, so I'm not sure a physical ticket existed, but the car park operates on cameras afaik.

Either way, I paid on the date they claimed I didn't pay(not sure this matters but the bank statement also shows I paid for parking on other dates too).

The business account I paid for the parking ticket is now closed down... BUT thankfully I do have an old bank statement from this time which shows a transaction for eurocar parks and shows I paid them on the date I was alleged to have parked for free.

Is this adequate proof? I'm not really sure what else I could show given this is now over 3 years later.

TL:DR
There is no dispute I parked in the car park on said date
Eurocar parks claim I didn't pay
Bank statement shows I did

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DWMB2

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Re: Court Claim for Not purchasing a ticket (I did)
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2024, 06:30:20 pm »
Can you show us the claim form please?

As this is DCB Legal, there's a good chance that if you defend the matter, they'll discontinue before it gets to a hearing, but before we advise on a defence it would be useful to see the claim.

The Rookie

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Re: Court Claim for Not purchasing a ticket (I did)
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2024, 06:50:38 pm »
I doubt they started sending letters a year after, more likely you were no longer at the registered keeper address so didn’t receive anything until after they did a trace.
There are motorists who have been scammed and those who are yet to be scammed!

OD123

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Re: Court Claim for Not purchasing a ticket (I did)
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2024, 09:35:39 pm »
^^ you are probably right, also i don't know if it matters, I don't own this car anymore, but I did when I parked there.

I have the bank statement but idk what you guys think I should do as I've never had this before ill just go with your advice.

here is the claim form: https://imgur.com/a/i6Ny7w1

b789

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Re: Court Claim for Not purchasing a ticket (I did)
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2024, 07:02:14 am »
With an issue date of 30th July, you have until Monday 19th August to file your acknowledgement of service. There is no advantage to delaying the AoS.

Here is a link to a guide on how to do the AoS on MCOL:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/r7pj2q44de5r7dg97yi83/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?rlkey=9y9gfemyylmprpjfdimw49qpk&dl=0

Once the AoS is filed, you will have until 4pm on Monday 2nd September to file your defence. Do not file your defence through MCOL. Your defence will be filed as a PDF attachment to an email to the CNBC.

This is very easily defended. The most likely outcome is a discontinuation or a strike out due to failures in the Particulars of Claim (PoC) to comply with CPR 16.4.

Do you still have the original Notice to Keeper (NtK)? We do not need to see any reminders or useless debt collector letters, just the original NtK. If you have any of their evidential photos, please show those too.

The reason we need to see the original NtK is because the defendant is being sued as the driver or, in the alternative, as the keeper. ECP do not know the identity of the driver unless the keeper tells them. There is no legal obligation for the keeper to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company. Unless the NtK is fully compliant with all the requirements of PoFA, they cannot hold the keeper liable.

Also, the date in the PoC that the they say the PCN was issued, 30/06/2021, is mendacious. That is more likely the date of the alleged breach of contract by the driver. The PCN (NtK) will have been issued at least several days later. Don’t forget, the claim has been signed under a statement of truth. It is anything but truthful.

Also, the PoC are inadequate in that they fail to particularise how much of the claim is for the original invoice (PCN) and how much is for damages. They have not shown how they have calculated the statutory interest and on what element of the claim. Any interest did not become due until at least 28 days after the PCN was issued and, as already pointed out, the issue date shown in the PoC is not true.

There are other CPR and PD technical failures in the woefully inadequate PoC that it is almost impossible to defend properly. There is now a “short” defence that has been developed together with the assistance of a district judge, designed to force the claimant to proved further particulars that fully comply with all the requirements of CPR 16.4.

This new short defence is accompanied with a draft order for the allocation judge. The short defence is still being “tweaked” and I am updating it as required. However, once we have seen the original NtK, I can provide a copy which may be slightly adjusted to the particular circumstances of each case.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2024, 07:35:17 am by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

b789

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Re: Court Claim for Not purchasing a ticket (I did)
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2024, 07:45:39 am »
One other thing you should do immediately is send a data rectification notice to the DPOs of both ECP and DCB Legal. You do not want either of those bottom dwelling firms to hold two possible addresses for service.

Whilst the claim has come through to your current address, do not be surprised if anything goes missing due to them having two possible addresses. You must make sure that they only have a single address for service.

In your data rectification notice, you must tell the DPOs to confirm that your current address for service is [current address] and they they must erase your old address. You require confirmation from them that this has been completed.

You can find the DPO email address in the “privacy” part of their websites.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

OD123

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Re: Court Claim for Not purchasing a ticket (I did)
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2024, 09:51:21 am »
Do you still have the original Notice to Keeper (NtK)? We do not need to see any reminders or useless debt collector letters, just the original NtK. If you have any of their evidential photos, please show those too.


- No, as this was so long ago, I don't even know if I got one, I'm guessing I did, but either way I don't have it.


Should I still go ahead with what you said? and also is there a way to donate to this forum?

thanks

b789

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Re: Court Claim for Not purchasing a ticket (I did)
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2024, 10:01:07 am »
Not to worry about the original NtK. As for donations to the forum, you would need to ask @DWMB2.

Let us know when you've completed the AoS for the claim and advice on the defence will be provided.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

DWMB2

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Re: Court Claim for Not purchasing a ticket (I did)
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2024, 10:22:18 am »
As for donations to the forum, you would need to ask @DWMB2.
The site's set-up and hosting costs have been generously paid for by Southpaw82, the site's owner, and we do not take donations. If you succeed with your case, you may wish to donate some of the money you have saved to a charity of your choice, but there is no obligation.

OD123

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Re: Court Claim for Not purchasing a ticket (I did)
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2024, 05:39:06 pm »
Thanks guys,

AoS is now complete - I followed the guide you linked me it was very easy!
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b789

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Re: Court Claim for Not purchasing a ticket (I did)
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2024, 05:47:04 pm »
I'll get the short defence ready over the weekend and you can then review it.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

OD123

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Re: Court Claim for Not purchasing a ticket (I did)
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2024, 05:12:13 pm »
should i reply to them yet or do I still have until September 2nd to use a defence?

b789

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Re: Court Claim for Not purchasing a ticket (I did)
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2024, 05:17:54 pm »
You still have until 4pm 2nd September to file the defence, so no rush.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

b789

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Re: Court Claim for Not purchasing a ticket (I did)
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2024, 05:31:41 pm »
As for the defence, very recently through discussion with a very long serving district judge, it has been recommended that the very long template defence that has been developed and used over the years has lost its effectiveness as judges are familiar with it and tend not to bother reading it as it is considered a boilerplate, “one size fits all” template.

It has been suggested that a “short” defence be submitted with an attached draft order for the allocation judge to require the claimant to submit particulars that fully comply with the CPRs. To date, no roboclaim claimant that has been served with the order has managed to fully comply with it and those claims have been struck out.

The defence has been amended and refined over this last week. Only the defendants name, the claimants name and the claim reference number need to be edited. The statement of truth can be signed electronically by simply typing your name. Nothing else needs to be added or edited.

The draft order does not require any any editing.

These are the latest versions of the documents as edited this week:

Short defence

Draft order for the short defence

The completed defence and draft order are attached as PDF files to the email and sent to claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov.uk with the subject "Claim: [claim number] defence" and, in the body of the email just put "Please find the defence and draft order for claim [claim number]." Also CC in yourself to the email.

When it has been sent, you should receive an auto-response email from the CNBC almost immediately. If you do not get the auto-response within 5-10 minutes, the defence has not been submitted and you need to try again until you get the auto-response email.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

OD123

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Re: Court Claim for Not purchasing a ticket (I did)
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2024, 10:30:04 pm »
I filed this defence on Tuesday and haven't received any responses from the claimant (I checked and got the confirmation email that my defence was emailed).

Is there a time limit they get to respond? I think I read 5 days in the defence but I'm not sure if this means they genuinely do have 5 days or a longer period of time.