Author Topic: CE Ltd Rejected My Appeal  (Read 7972 times)

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Re: CE Ltd Rejected My Appeal
« Reply #15 on: »
So I submitted my appeal to POPLA, and CE Ltd responded with this today (attached docs). They seem to ignore my claims about PoFA and transfering liability to the keeper one day early...

Does anyone have any advice? POPLA says I have 7 days to respond and I don't know what else there is to say other than what I've already written!

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« Last Edit: March 17, 2025, 08:26:40 pm by straycat »

Re: CE Ltd Rejected My Appeal
« Reply #16 on: »
They also added a press summary and images of the car park

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Re: CE Ltd Rejected My Appeal
« Reply #17 on: »
just trying to get my head around something here...

Point 16 in CE's operator evidence pack, they state the following:

"16. The Driver failed to purchase parking within 10 minutes of arrival for the vehicle, registration YR11VPU, as can be seen from the attached report which shows the vehicles that did purchase parking on the day in question."

They then go on to evidence this:



Does anyone else notice the anomaly?

They then go on to state at 18: "Whilst we appreciate the Driver’s submissions, we are unable to take into account mitigating circumstances; the terms and conditions of parking were clear."

The PPSCoP at section 8.4.4 states:

"8.4.4. In considering appeals, parking operators must consider mitigating circumstances in accordance with Annex F."

1. Failure to Acknowledge the PPSCoP (Feb 2025) Update and Its Relevance

The operator has failed to acknowledge that the Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP) Version 1.1 (Feb 2025), which was published just days after this alleged contravention, now explicitly states that a PCN must not be issued if payment was received for the full period of parking before the vehicle left the site.

This amendment followed a national outcry over rogue operators imposing unrealistic and unfair penalty conditions, such as a strict 10-minute payment window, even when their own flawed payment systems cause delays.

The operator has failed to justify why a PCN was issued in this case, given that payment was received before departure and covered the full period of parking.

2. Failure to Address the Payment System Malfunctions

The appellant has provided clear screenshot evidence demonstrating multiple failures of the operator’s payment systems, including:

- Repeated error messages on the Phone and Pay app.
- The website failing to load properly, preventing online payment.
- The automated phone payment system requiring verbal input of card details, which repeatedly failed to register the information correctly.
- The operator claims that the system was working because other motorists made payments, but they have not evidenced this claim.
- The operator has only submitted a list of other vehicles that were eventually registered.
- This does not prove that the system was functioning correctly at all times.
- It is entirely possible that other motorists also encountered issues and only succeeded after multiple attempts, just as the appellant did.
- The operator has failed to provide system logs or any technical evidence proving that their systems were fully operational and without fault at the time of the alleged contravention.

As a result, the appellant was subjected to an unreasonable and arbitrary payment condition that could not be met due to the operator’s own failures, rather than any wrongdoing on the part of the motorist.

3. Lack of Prominent Signage Regarding the 10-Minute Payment Rule

= The operator claims that the signs were "clearly displayed", but their own photographic evidence contradicts this.
- The images provided show that the signs are barely noticeable and not positioned in a way that ensures drivers can read and understand them before entering the car park.
- Even in the close-up images submitted by the operator, it is impossible to clearly read the actual terms, particularly the 10-minute limit for payment, which appears buried in small print among other conditions.
- This is a clear failure under Vine v Waltham Forest [2000] 4 All ER 169, which establishes that for a contract to be legally binding, motorists must be given sufficient notice of the key terms before they park.
- A term that is hidden in minuscule text, buried among other information, and not legible even in the operator’s own close-up photos cannot be deemed prominent enough to form a valid contract.
- The operator has failed to provide any evidence that this critical term was displayed clearly and prominently at the entrance, where a driver could make an informed decision before entering the site.
- This lack of clarity and visibility makes the 10-minute rule an unfair and unenforceable condition.

4. Misuse of Beavis Case Law

- The operator has included a summary of ParkingEye v Beavis in an apparent attempt to suggest that this Supreme Court ruling somehow justifies the parking charge. However, this is a clear misrepresentation of that case, which has no relevance to the circumstances here.
Beavis concerned a free car park where the charge was intended as a deterrent to prevent overstaying, and the Supreme Court ruled that such a charge was justified due to the need for turnover of parking spaces.
- In contrast, this case involves paid parking, where the issue is not overstaying or abuse of the car park but rather a delayed payment caused by system failures beyond the motorist’s control.
- The core issue here is the unrealistic and unfair 10-minute payment condition, which was rendered even more unreasonable due to the operator’s own flawed payment systems.
- Beavis has no bearing on cases where a motorist fully intended to pay and did pay but was obstructed by a dysfunctional payment process and insufficiently clear contractual terms.
- The fact that the operator has included Beavis in their evidence pack without explaining its relevance suggests that they are simply relying on it as a scare tactic, rather than providing a genuine legal argument.
- POPLA assessors must not allow operators to bandy about the Beavis case in every appeal as if it applies universally. Each case must be considered on its own facts, and in this instance, the circumstances are entirely different from those in Beavis.

5. Failure to Justify the Issuance of the PCN

The operator’s own evidence confirms that payment was made before the vehicle left the site and that the driver paid for the full parking duration. Despite this, the operator still issued a PCN based on an arbitrary and predatory 10-minute payment condition, which serves no legitimate purpose other than to extract penalties from unsuspecting motorists.

The Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP) Version 1.1 (Feb 2025), which was issued just days after this PCN was issued, was amended precisely because of a national outcry against rogue parking operators using this exact exploitative payment rule. The 10-minute payment condition is unfair, unreasonable, and now officially recognised as such under the PPSCoP, as it operates purely as an undisclosed penalty clause—a clear breach of contract law.

If a motorist pays for the period of parking before departure, there is no legitimate justification for issuing a penalty charge, as there is no loss incurred by the operator or landowner. The fact that the BPA and IPC had to urgently amend the industry-wide Code of Practice confirms that this tactic is entrapment, deception, and an unlawful revenue-generating scheme rather than a genuine enforcement measure.

The PPSCoP now explicitly prohibits the issuance of PCNs in these circumstances, confirming that the operator’s conduct in this case is indefensible. This is not simply a minor oversight; it is a clear example of systemic abuse by rogue parking firms, who knowingly impose near-impossible conditions on motorists to engineer technical breaches that result in revenue, rather than ensuring fair and reasonable parking management.

The operator has provided no justification for issuing a PCN when the motorist ultimately complied with the fundamental requirement of paying for parking. The only reasonable conclusion is that this PCN was issued punitively and in bad faith, making it wholly unenforceable.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: CE Ltd Rejected My Appeal
« Reply #18 on: »
Thanks for this! I'll upload it as a response (along with the fact that they don't even bother to check if the driver's registration is accurate lol). Fingers crossed it goes well, I'll keep you updated.

P.S., sorry to be a bother, but could you replace your screenshot of the list of car regs with the one I've attached here, as I clearly forgot to blur mine lol

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Letter from HM Courts & Tribunals Service
« Reply #19 on: »
Hi all,

I received this letter from HM Courts & Tribunals Service- do I need to reply or is this not an official court document? Would appreciate any help.

https://imgur.com/a/n1eVPfI

Fyi, here is my previous post on getting a PCN from CE Ltd (I only started a new post bc it wouldn't let me attach this letter to a reply https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/ce-ltd-rejected-my-appeal/msg61957/#msg61957.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2025, 06:09:50 pm by straycat »

Re: CE Ltd Rejected My Appeal
« Reply #20 on: »
You should obscure the claim number and password also.

Re: CE Ltd Rejected My Appeal
« Reply #21 on: »
So, from being advised to appeal to POPLA and respond to the operators evidence, we have not heard back until no, after a claim has been issued.

Assuming the POPLA appeal was unsuccessful, why didn't you post the decision. Also, did you receive a Letter of Claim (LoC)? If so, why have you not told us about it?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: CE Ltd Rejected My Appeal
« Reply #22 on: »
With an issue date of 8th September you have until 4pm on Wednesday 27th September to submit your defence. If you submit an Acknowledgement of Service (AoS) before then, you would then have until 4pm on Wednesday 10th October to submit your defence.

You only need to submit an AoS if you need extra time to prepare your defence. If you want to submit an AoS then follow the instructions in this linked PDF:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0

Until very recently, we never advised using the MCOL to submit a defence. However, due to recent systemic failures within the CNBC, we feel that it is safer to now submit a short defence using MCOL as it is instantly submitted and entered into the "system". Whilst it will deny the use of some formatting or inclusion of transcripts etc. these can always be included with the Witness Statement (WS) later, if it ever progresses that far.

You will need to copy and paste it into the defence text box on MCOL. It has been checked to make sure that it will fit into the 122 lines limit.

Quote
1. The Defendant denies the claim in its entirety. The Defendant asserts that there is no liability to the Claimant and that no debt is owed. The claim is without merit and does not adequately disclose any comprehensible cause of action.

2. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of Claim (PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the Defendant such that the PoC do not comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a).

3. The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC because:

(a) The contract referred to is not detailed or attached to the PoC in accordance with PD 16, para 7.3(1);

(b) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on;

(c) The PoC do not adequately set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts the defendant has breached the contract (or contracts);

(d) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity exactly where the breach occurred, the exact time when the breach occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked before the parking charge was allegedly incurred or any facts capable of amounting to a breach;

(e) The PoC do not state precisely how the sum claimed is calculated, including the basis for any statutory interest, damages, or other charges;

(f) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim is the parking charge and what proportion is damages;

(g) The PoC do not provide clarity on whether the Defendant is sued as the driver or the keeper of the vehicle, as the claimant cannot plead alternative causes of action without specificity.

4. The Defendant submits that courts have previously struck out similar claims of their own initiative for failure to adequately comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a), particularly where the Particulars of Claim failed to specify the contractual terms relied upon or explain the alleged breach with sufficient clarity. The Defendant refers specifically to the persuasive appellate cases:

- Civil Enforcement Ltd v Chan (2023), Luton County Court, HHJ Murch, ref: E7GM9W44

- CPMS Ltd v Akande (2024), Manchester County Court, HHJ Evans, ref: K0DP5J30

In both cases, the claim was struck out due to materially similar failures to comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a).

5. The Defendant invites the Court to strike out this claim of its own initiative. The Defendant relies on the judicial reasoning set out in Chan and Akande, as well as other County Court cases involving identical failures to adequately comply with CPR 16.4. In those cases, the court further observed that, given the modest sum claimed, requiring further case management steps would be disproportionate and contrary to the overriding objective. Accordingly, the judge struck out the claim outright rather than permitting an amendment. The Defendant proposes that the following Order be made:

Draft Order:

Of the Court's own initiative and upon reading the particulars of claim and the defence.

AND the court being of the view that the particulars of claim do not comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a) because: (a) they do not set out the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is (or are) relied on; and (b) they do not adequately set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts that the defendant was in breach of contract.

AND the claimant could have complied with CPR 16.4(1)(a) had it served separate detailed particulars of claim, as it could have done pursuant to PD 7C, para 5.2, but chose not to do so.

AND upon the Court determining, having regard to the overriding objective (CPR 1.1), that it would be disproportionate to direct further pleadings or to allot any further share of the Court’s resources to this claim (for example by ordering further particulars of claim and a further defence, with consequent case management).

ORDER:

1. The claim is struck out.
2. Permission to either party to apply to set aside, vary or stay this order by application on notice, which must be filed at this Court not more than 7 days after service of this order, failing which no such application may be made.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: CE Ltd Rejected My Appeal
« Reply #23 on: »
Hi, thanks for this defence, I've just submitted it online via money claim.gov

Do you think this will go to court? (I'm trying not to panic).

Also sorry for not providing an update. Basically, POPLA rejected my appeal, and I believe I may have received a Letter of Claim but I don't really remember (unhelpful, sorry).

Here's the POPLA response: https://imgur.com/a/VsyGCCH
« Last Edit: September 21, 2025, 03:56:33 pm by straycat »

Re: CE Ltd Rejected My Appeal
« Reply #24 on: »
POPLA appears to have decided that PoFA only requires the notice to be posted in time (and they mis-state the requirement because it has to be posted to arrive within 14 days, not as the assessor states) and ignored other points making this not comply.

Re: CE Ltd Rejected My Appeal
« Reply #25 on: »
POPLA appears to have decided that PoFA only requires the notice to be posted in time (and they mis-state the requirement because it has to be posted to arrive within 14 days, not as the assessor states) and ignored other points making this not comply.

What are you talking about? Whilst the assessor is wrong when they state that the Notice must be "issued" within 14 days rather than than "given" within 14 days, in this case, the Notice was given within the relevant period.

As CEL are handling this with their own legal team, there is a higher chance that it will go to a hearing, but not necessarily. There is a good chance this will be struck out after allocation because of the PoC defects in breach of CPR 16.4(1)(a). We will just have to wait and see.

Why have you redacted the signatory of the Statement of Truth on the N1SDT Claim Form? We need to see the name and position of every person who signs a document that is submitted for litigation, whether the claim form, the N180 DQ, any WS or any other form or document that is part of the litigation process. Please tell us the name and position of the person who signed it.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: CE Ltd Rejected My Appeal
« Reply #26 on: »
Sorry, that would be a S. Wilson, 'Head of Legal'

https://imgur.com/a/1w9JyXG

Thanks, I guess I just have to wait to hear back from them now...

Re: CE Ltd Rejected My Appeal
« Reply #27 on: »
So, the Statement of Truth is defective because it has been signed without the full name of the person making the statement. Practice Direction 22 is clear: the signer must print their full name beneath the signature, and a legal representative must sign in their own name (not just the firm). Using “S Wilson” instead of the full forename is non-compliant with PD22 ¶3.8 (and ¶3.9 if purporting to sign as a legal representative). It’s usually treated as a procedural irregularity that the court can require to be corrected; it’s not normally fatal to the claim unless the party fails to put it right when asked.

You should send two separate letters to CEL as PDF attachments in separate emails.

First email:

Quote
subject: Claim [M4GM5R3Q] – Defect in Statement of Truth on Particulars of Claim

To: legal@cel.co.uk

Dear Sir/Madam,

Please see the attached Open Letter regarding the defective Statement of Truth on your Particulars of Claim in Claim No. M4GM5R3Q (issue date 08/09/2025).

Kindly acknowledge receipt by return.

Yours faithfully,

[Your full name]
[Email] | [Telephone]

This is the PDF letter you should attach to this email:

Quote
OPEN LETTER

Claim: M4GM5R3Q — Civil Enforcement Limited v [Defendant’s name] Issue date: 08/09/2025

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write regarding the Statement of Truth that purports to verify the Particulars of Claim on the N1SDT. The signature block states only “S Wilson” (Head of Legal). This does not comply with PD 22, which requires the signatory to print their full forename(s) and surname beneath the signature and, if signing as a legal representative, to sign in their own name and identify capacity.

Please within 7 days of this email file and serve a separate Statement of Truth verifying the existing Particulars of Claim (identifying the claim number and issue date) that prints the signatory’s full name and states their capacity. This request concerns verification only. For the avoidance of doubt, I do not consent to any amendment of the content of the Particulars of Claim.

If you do not comply, I will issue an application seeking an order for proper verification under CPR 22.2, and I will seek my application fee and reasonable litigant-in-person costs.

Yours faithfully,

[Your full name]

[Address]
[Email] | [Telephone]
Date: [insert date sent][/b]

For the second letter/email, use the following:

Quote
Email subject: Without prejudice save as to costs – offer to discontinue (M4GM5R3Q)

To: legal@cel.co.uk

Without prejudice save as to costs

Dear Sir Madam,

Please see the attached WP(SATC) Letter offering a time-limited opportunity to discontinue with no order as to costs.

Please acknowledge receipt.

Yours faithfully,

[Your full name][/b]

Use this as the text for the PDF letter you are attaching to the email:

Quote
WITHOUT PREJUDICE SAVE AS TO COSTS

Claim: M4GM5R3Q — Civil Enforcement Limited v [Defendant’s name], issue date: 08/09/2025

Dear Sir/Madam,

Having reviewed your Particulars of Claim and the defective Statement of Truth, my position is that the claim fails to comply with CPR 16.4 and that the Statement of Truth is non-compliant with PD 22.

Offer: If you file and serve a Notice of Discontinuance within 7 days of this email, I will accept discontinuance on the basis of no order as to costs, and I will take no further steps.

If you do not discontinue, I will:

• apply for an order compelling proper verification of the PoC (PD 22 / CPR 22.2); and
• seek strike-out for non-compliance with CPR 16.4(1)(a), relying on persuasive authority including Civil Enforcement Ltd v Ming Tan Chan (2023) [E7GM9W44] and CPMS v Akande (2023) [K0DP5J30];
• and I will seek my court fee and reasonable litigant-in-person costs (£19/hour).

This offer is open for 7 days and is made without prejudice save as to costs.

Yours faithfully,

[Your full name]

[Email] | [Telephone]
Date: [insert date sent][/b]
« Last Edit: September 23, 2025, 02:39:43 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: CE Ltd Rejected My Appeal
« Reply #28 on: »
Wow, thanks so much for this. Was trying to get this sent off but the email address (legal@cel.co.uk) isn't valid.

Gonna try to scour the web for another email address associated with CEL and will come back with an update.

Re: CE Ltd Rejected My Appeal
« Reply #29 on: »
How about
Quote
office@ce-service.co.uk
Legal3@ce-service.co.uk
?