Author Topic: Euro Parking Services - Castle Wharf (BPA Non Compliant Signage??)  (Read 159 times)

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Hi all,

I moved into an apartment in September and have been parking outside. It's in a private road. Where I parked there used to be no sign, then one day 'Unloading Only, 20 Minutes, no return within 1 hour' signs went up. It's been fine for about 3 months.

Unfortunately, I've received a 6 fines (£60 each if paid within 14 days so £360 total) so far starting 22nd November, and because I didn't receive them until the 7th, I've potentially got more to come. First off, I realise that parking there was a mistake, but I was under the impression the unloading signs were put up by the apartment building as they look amateurish, and still have the plastic wrap on them.

I appealed on the basis that the signage was not up to BPA standards, as it has no branding or mentioning of the charge, so it is not clear who I'm getting into a 'contract' with. They've rejected the appeal.

There is an EPS sign that mentions the terms etc near the entrance, but it's probably about 25-50 metres away from where I parked. There is also a sign opposite where I parked that explains charges but is a different company (they own that side of the road, EPS the side I was on). I'm wondering if that could add to the 'confusion' as the nearest sign was not EPS; therefore, it feels unclear who I was getting into an agreement/contract with.

In the spot I parked in, google street view shows that back in 2012 EPS used to have a sign. This is no longer there, so it's not clear it's there (managed) land.

The Contravention is "Parking without clearly displaying a valid permit".

I would just like to know how far I should take this. Do I just have to suck it up, learn my lesson, and pay. Or is there validity to the 'inadequate signage' claim?

Photos are here on this google drive link(I don't know how to upload photos to this forum). It shows:
1) The car in the spot (with the small unloading sign visible)
2)EPS terms sign near entrance of road
3) EPS terms sign with parking spot in shot (somewhat far away - note this is the closest sign to the spot)
4)Small inadequate unloading sign.
5)Lamppost with no EPS sign - unloading sign visible
6)Non-EPS sign that is opposite the spot where I parked
7) Full shot showing non-EPS sign and spot I parked in.
8)Google street view showing EPS sign that used on the on the lamppost.


Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Note, I received the rejection of the appeal today, so I have 14 days to make payment.

Thanks,
Owen

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Re: Euro Parking Services - Castle Wharf (BPA Non Compliant Signage??)
« Reply #1 on: »
A number of immediate questions;

Is there mention of a parking space in your lease or in the advert for the apartment? If so then it is likely that you already have the legal permission to park without entering to an additional contract with the parking operator.

Secondly, (if the answer is 'no' to the first question) were the changes in T&Cs specifically drawn to your attention - when changes are made the parking operator should make it clear that 'new parking rules are now in place'.

Re: Euro Parking Services - Castle Wharf (BPA Non Compliant Signage??)
« Reply #2 on: »
A number of immediate questions;

Is there mention of a parking space in your lease or in the advert for the apartment? If so then it is likely that you already have the legal permission to park without entering to an additional contract with the parking operator.

Secondly, (if the answer is 'no' to the first question) were the changes in T&Cs specifically drawn to your attention - when changes are made the parking operator should make it clear that 'new parking rules are now in place'.

To the first question, it did advertise/state no parking. The reception people did say I could chance it but they never guaranteed it would be safe. I forgot to mention, but pretty much everyone has been parking outside. Not that that in itself is an excuse, but we were all under the impression it wasn't being monitored. A lot of the buildings/shops in the area are derelict at the moment and have been for years so I sort of assumed it wasn't monitored, which I suppose it hasn't been for about 3 months.

To the second question, the changes were not drawn to my attention. They did pop up shortly after I moved in, but as I said before, I've gone about 3 months without an issue.

The worst part is I only found out on the 7th December about these tickets, so I could potentially be facing another 8 PCNs (so the whole thing could be £840).


Re: Euro Parking Services - Castle Wharf (BPA Non Compliant Signage??)
« Reply #3 on: »
First thing you need to get straight in your head is that you have not received an "fines", and they certainly are not for £60 each! What you have received are speculative invoices for £100 each but with the fantastic, one time offer, never to be missed, 40% mugs discount. They are invoices for a supposed debt you owe because the driver allegedly breached a contract with the unregulated privater parking firm.

So, now that you are a bit better informed, please show us exactly the wording you used in your initial appeal to EPS. For example, have you blabbed the drivers identity by failing to refer to the driver in the third person and blabbed it by saying silly things like "I did this or that" instead of "the driver did this or that"?

What precisely does your lease/AST say about parking, if anything? What it doesn't say is equally important. Unless you or the "reception people" can prove what was said about parking, it is as useful as a poke in the arm with a sharp stick. Your lease/AST is the only document that will be of any use.

A 13 year old GSV image of any signs is also useless. You need to either show more recent images and you should also take your own photos. All unregulated private parking operators who are AOS members are required to fully comply with the PPSCoP and, as for signs, their previous Code of Practice. As EPS are IPC members, their IPC CoP v9 states:

Quote
Changes in Operator’s Terms and Conditions
Where there is any change to any pre-existing terms and conditions that would not be immediately apparent to a person visiting the Car Park and which materially affects the Motorist the Operator should place additional (temporary) notices at the entrance making it clear that new terms and conditions/charges apply, such that regular visitors who may be familiar with the old terms do not inadvertently incur Parking Charges. Notices should be in addition to the signage ordinarily required and left in place for an appropriate period.

Whilst they would abuse that by saying something mendacious such as "we did put up a sign for a week" or similar, the latest CoP, the PPSCoP goes further and clearly states in section 3.4 states:

Quote
3.4. Material changes – notices
Where there is any material change to any pre-existing terms and conditions that would not be immediately apparent to a driver entering controlled land that is or has been open for public parking, the parking operator must place additional (temporary) notices at the site entrance for a period of not less than 4 months from the date of the change making it clear
that new terms and conditions/charges apply, such that regular visitors who might be familiar with the old terms do not inadvertently incur parking charges.

NOTE: Examples of material changes can include introduction of parking enforcement where none has previously applied, introduction of time-limited free parking, or reductions in the time limit within which free parking is available. Given the need to avoid confusion and clutter at entrances the test is whether the fact that a change has been made is clearly signalled to drivers on entering the land and the nature of the change is clearly displayed thereafter – it may also be necessary to install repeater notices depending on the scale of the premises.

So, if less than 4 months have passed since the new signs went up, you'd better hurry up and get photos of their entrance and other signs to prove that there is no "notice of material change". Is it more than 4 months ago?

I also suggest you show us one of the Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) you received as postal Notice to Keeper (NtK) (both sides). Also give us a timeline for each NtK you received with the date of the alleged contravention and the date the NtK was issued, for all 6 and any subsequent NtKs.

Once you have done everything that is requested above, we will be in a position to assist and advise.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain