Author Topic: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station  (Read 2263 times)

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APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
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Background:


  • Parked on evening of 23 October
  • Thought payment had gone through in app (it had not - totally my mistake)
  • Realised at 4pm the day after. Made payment immediately on app. Returned to car at 7pm to see ticket (issued at 10am)
  • Notice left on vehicle on return (images below). £85 charge - reduced to £50 if paid within 14 days
  • Notice left on vehicle on return (images below). £85 charge - reduced to £50 if paid within 14 days
  • Car is on a a salary sacrifice lease from my employer. So I am not the registered keeper. If a notice gets sent to them, I get charged an administration fee (and it takes a long time to go through their internal process)



Notice received is as follows:











Signage in car park

Apologies - I have not had a chance to go back out to the car park. I will do so to take pictures of the signage.

The street view (https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZnzJLeR9a94Vazqm7) has some blurry images of the signage.


Request

This was ultimately my mistake. And if the answer is to just pay up then so be it.

But £50 feels somewhat extortionate and I just wonder whether there is anyway to mitigate my cost.


Thanks

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Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
« Reply #1 on: »
How much is the administration fee? That might influence your decision.

Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
« Reply #2 on: »
What does it say in any paperwork you have about the lease company charging admin fees?

Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
« Reply #3 on: »
As the car is leased to you, and you are not the Keeper, you are the Hirer, the way the lease company should deal with this for them to receive the Notice to Keeper (NtK) and then they transfer liability to you by providing APCOA your details and a copy of the lease and liability declaration. You then receive a Notice to Hirer (NtH) from APCOA which is very easy to deal with and you won't be paying a penny to APCOA as long as you do not identify the driver.

As for the admin fee from the lease company, you may not be obliged to owe it to them, depending on the wording in your lease agreement and references to invoices from private parking firms. This is NOT a "fine" or a "penalty" issued by any sort of "authority". It is simply a speculative incline from an unregulated private parking firm for an alleged breach of contract by the driver.

As you cannot respond to that Notice to Driver (NtD) as the Keeper, you are kind of stuffed unless you admit to being the driver and pay the charge. The only saving grace is that if you don't pay it, apart from loads of useless debt recovery threatening letters, nothing will happen because APCOA do not litigate. You can safely ignore all debt collectors as they are powerless to do anything except to try and intimidate the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying out of ignorance and fear.

If you can persuade the lease company to give you a Letter of Authority (LoA) to act on their behalf as the Hirer, then you could appeal it as the Hirer. However, unless you get that LoA, you cannot do anything until you receive an NtH.

It is very easy to appeal once you have either an NtH or LoA because the driver is not identified (no legal obligation to do so to an unregulated private parking firm) and they cannot transfer liability from the unknown driver to the known Hirer as the location of the alleged contravention is on land that is not relevant for the purposes of PoFA 2012.

This would be the appeal if you were the Keeper or to receive an NtK or NtH:

Quote
I am the Hirer. APCOA cannot hold a Hirer liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, APCOA will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because TfW Newport Station is not 'relevant land'.

If the TfW wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Railway Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because APCOA is not the landowner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for APCOA’s own profit (as opposed to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and APCOA has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtH can only hold the driver liable. APCOA have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
« Reply #4 on: »
Thank you all.

The lease company has a charge of £15 - so not end of the world. And as you say - I may be able to defend.

I note the point you've made about them transferring liability and it being easy to appeal on the basis the driver is not identified.

A few questions from me:

(1) I think the lease company can provide me with a LoA. Do I need to wait until APCOA send the notice to them and they transfer liability to me, or can I take any proative steps to appeal this in the meantime?

(2) Also - can I just check, once in motion - will APCOA accept this appeal and remove the charge? Or will I need to go through POPLA?

Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
« Reply #5 on: »
APCOA usually concede for a no PoFA case. I doubt you'll get an LoA. All the lease company has to do is pass liability to you as the Hirer and then APCOA will send you a new Notice to Hirer (NtH) which you will appeal.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
« Reply #6 on: »
Thanks.

Sorry if this is made clear above, but do I need to wait 28 days for APCOA to send the notice to the lease company (and for them to transfer liability to me)? i.e. I cannot appeal now as I am not the keeper?


If that is the case, should I proactively reach out to the lease company to inform them I have an incoming ticket? When I previously received a fine (see here), the lease company automatically paid it and I had to fight them for months to get them to repay me etc.. I could certainly go down that path but it would be more helpful if I could deal with it now and have the matter closed.

The lease company did send me a LoA (despite paying it...) last time, so maybe they would send me one this time. If I had one prior to the 28 day period, could I fight this and close it down before it even gets to the lease company (again, to save a further fight for the admin fee?).

Thanks

Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
« Reply #7 on: »
So, you have a moronic lease company that has no understanding of the law. Unless you have an LoA that covers this PCN, you cannot respond to the NtK. So, you can proactively approach the lease company but you need to make it very clear that they MUST NOT pay a PCN as it is nothing but an invoice for an alleged breach of contract by the driver and NOT a "fine" or "penalty" as no "offence" has been committed.

All they have to do when they receive the NtK, is transfer liability to the Hirer (you) as instructed on the NtK. Once they have transferred liability, they will o longer have any liability and it will all have been transferred to you, the Hirer.

Once liability is transferred, the parking operator must issue a new Notice to Hirer (NtH) to you, in your name and you can easily see this off.

If the lease company pays it, you can ONLY try and persuade them to not charge you for their mistake or, if necessary, sue them.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
« Reply #8 on: »
Ok so could you please confirm my understanding:

- If I can receive a LoA (specific to this PCN) ahead of APCOA issuing the notice to the lease company:
   > I can respond to the PCN and appeal.
       > The consensus is that APCOA should allow the appeal and the matter should be closed.


- If I can't recieve the LOA ahead of APCOA issuing the notice to the lease company:
   > I should ensure the lease company do not pay (contact them ahead of time) and instead, all they should do is follow the law and transfer liability to me.
   > I can challenge the lease company for any admin fee on the basis this is not a "fine".
   > Once I receive the NtH, I can respond to the PCN and appeal.
      > Again, the consensus is that APCOA should allow the appeal and the matter should be closed.


For the appeal in either scenario - I can use the wording above (i.e. "APCOA cannot hold a Hirer liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control...").

Is that correct?

Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
« Reply #9 on: »
Your ability to challenge the lease company will depend on the precise wording in your contract. If they only use the wording "fine" or "Penalty" then you'd be on pretty solid ground. However, if they use further terminology which could be interpreted to mean a private parking charge then you'd be on thin ice.

Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
« Reply #10 on: »
You are correct. As long as you can prevent the morons at the lease company paying it, which is a breach of your rights, then you can appeal to APCOA. For a breach on non-relevant land, APCOA will cancel. They may come back first asking for the drivers details, which you are not obliged to provide. Either ignore that or tell them that you refer them to the answer given in Arkell v Pressdram (1971).

In the unlikely scenario that APCOA do not cancel, you just ignore any debt recovery letters and eventually they will give up. APCOA don't litigate.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
« Reply #11 on: »
Super helpful. I will contact my lease provider for a LoA (and pre-warn not to pay the PCN if it lands with them, and instead transfer the liability) and take it from there. Will report back soon!

Thank you again all
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Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
« Reply #12 on: »
Hi all

I've managed to obtain the LoA from the lease company. Please could you let me know whether there is anything specific i need to be aware of when I appeal, or do I simply use the wording above? (Just checking whether it makes a difference I am a hirer appealing under a LoA?)

Also - I assume I appeal just following the instructions on the PCN?

Thanks!


------


Just for completeness - this is what the LoA says - let me know if there is any issue:

Quote
LETTER OF AUTHORISATION

Reg Number: XXXX Notice Number: XXXX

I refer to the above numbered Private Parking Charge document issued date 23/10/2025, incident dated 23/10/2025 10:14

We are a vehicle leasing company and we hereby give permission for the below mentioned hirer to appeal and discuss the above mentioned:

The name of the Hirer/Lessee is:-
XXX XXX

This is a long term lease which commenced on XX/10/2024 and is due on XX/10/2027.

Thank you for your assistance.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2025, 05:20:02 pm by icedspurs83 »

Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
« Reply #13 on: »
With that Letter of Authority, you can now appeal directly to APCOA as though you are the hirer/keeper.

You may appeal immediately — you no longer need to wait for a Notice to Keeper or Notice to Hirer because the Letter of Authority (LoA) grants you full standing to act. Submit your appeal online via APCOA’s official portal, quoting both the vehicle registration and the notice number.

In the online form, select or write that you are the hirer authorised by the vehicle’s registered keeper (lease company).
Do not name or imply who the driver was. Your legal standing is as the hirer, not the driver.

Appeal with the following, verbatim:

Quote
I am the authorised hirer of the vehicle and attach a Letter of Authority from the registered keeper permitting me to act on their behalf. APCOA cannot hold a Hirer liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, APCOA will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because TfW Newport Station is not 'relevant land'.

If the TfW wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Railway Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because APCOA is not the landowner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for APCOA’s own profit (as opposed to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and APCOA has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtH can only hold the driver liable. APCOA have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

APCOA normally cancels at this stage once they see a PoFA-based hirer appeal. They very rarely pursue claims and have no history of litigation.

If, despite this, they reject it, you will receive a POPLA code — which can be used to win easily by repeating the “not relevant land” and “no PoFA liability” points.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: APCOA PCN - No payment - TfW Newport Station
« Reply #14 on: »
Thank you very much. I have submitted the appeal and will report back.
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