Author Topic: Alliance Parking PCN - Trevone Beach - Overstay  (Read 2012 times)

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Alliance Parking PCN - Trevone Beach - Overstay
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Seeking support in relation to the below matter.

Last year keeper of vehicle received a PCN from Alliance Parking at Trevino beach. Parking was paid by non keeper of car and can be evidenced on bank statement. There was a delay returning to the car resulting in an overstay of 10/20 mins (exact time not known as purchased ticket not kept)

Keeper did not take picture of parking signs but found this picture online (also see attached)

https://www.searchforsites.co.uk/image.php?src=24897_1632245139_app.jpg

The keeper appealed the PCN as follows:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.”



The keeper received letters from Trace and more recently Moorside legal chasing payment but they have been ignored.

Last week a letter of claim was received from moorside, dated 18 June.

Any advice on how to respond would be much appreciated

Thanks


 



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Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Trevone Beach - Overstay
« Reply #1 on: »
Respond to the LoC by email to help@moorsidelegal.co.uk and also CC in yourself, with the following:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Your Letter Before Claim contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon and thus is in complete contravention of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so. As there is no legal presumption that the keeper of a vehicle was its driver on any particular occasion, your client cannot pursue me as driver as per VCS v Edward (2023) [H0KF6C9C].

As your client cannot pursue me as driver or keeper, it would be an abuse of the court’s process for your client to issue a claim against me and I will defend any such claim vigorously and seek costs in relation to your client’s unreasonable and vexatious conduct under Part 27.14(2)(g)

Because your letter lacks specificity and breaches the requirements of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2) as well as the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)), you must treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents/information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol.

As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction and the Pre-Action Protocol for debt claims and your client, as a serial litigator of debt claims, should likewise be aware of them. As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is embarrassing that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and un-evidenced 'Letter of Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the Pre-Action Protocol.

I confirm that, once I am in receipt of a Letter Before Claim that complies with the requirements of para 3.1 (a) of the Pre-Action Protocol, I shall then seek advice and submit a formal response within 30 days, as required by the Protocol. Thus, I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. An explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. what the details of the claim are; for how long it is claimed the vehicle was parked, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
6. If the claim is for a contractual breach, photographs showing the vehicle was parked in contravention of said contract.
7. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
8. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP).
9. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
10. Photographs of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed) at the time of any alleged contravention.
11. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
12. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what is dressed up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?
13. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13, 15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Yours faithfully,

[Your name]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Trevone Beach - Overstay
« Reply #2 on: »
Thanks so much for the advice.

Will send across today.

Out of interest - what are the likely next steps after this?

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Trevone Beach - Overstay
« Reply #3 on: »
A claim will be issued. We will provide a suitable defence and advice on how to submit that when you show us the N1SDT Claim Form with the Particulars of Claim (PoC). When you do, you only need to redact your personal info, the claim number and the MCOL password. ALL dates must be left visible.

AS the incompetents at Moorside Legal will fail to comply with the PAP, you should also report them to the SRA.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Trevone Beach - Overstay
« Reply #4 on: »
Thanks appreciate that

Just for my clarification, the letter of claims asks for £170. In the suggested response above:

“ 12. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what is dressed up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?”

Is the additional £70 a standard uplift that is applied to Alliance’s PCN notice? (Sorry don’t have original letters to hand at the moment as away)

Thanks

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Trevone Beach - Overstay
« Reply #5 on: »
Yes, we know. The charge in the PCN was for £100. They have added a fake additional £70 to that sum, hence the claim is now for £170.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Trevone Beach - Overstay
« Reply #6 on: »
Hi

Keeper of vehicle received an email from Moorside asking:

“To enable us to process your email, we need to confirm that we are corresponding with the correct individual. To pass our security checks, we ask that you confirm the following: 
Address and post code
Vehicle registration
Please reply to this email to continue the email thread.”

Assume no issue for the keeper to provide this information?

Thanks

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Trevone Beach - Overstay
« Reply #7 on: »
Is that the full response you have had to the response I advised you to send a couple of months ago? I doubt it, so please show their full response.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Trevone Beach - Overstay
« Reply #8 on: »
You can respond with the following:

Quote
Subject: Re: Your so-called “security checks” – [Your ref]

Dear Sirs,

It beggars belief that your firm, having sent me a Letter of Claim to my correct address and clearly holding my vehicle details, now demands that I “pass security” by confirming the very information you already possess. Such conduct typifies the incompetence for which you are becoming notorious.

Let me be absolutely clear: I will not be using any so-called “portal”. You may communicate with me by email or by post, at your discretion. Any further attempts to impose artificial obstacles to correspondence will simply be treated as further evidence of unreasonable conduct and brought to the court’s attention in due course.

You are required to cease these time-wasting antics and provide a full and substantive response to my letter of [date], in strict compliance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims. Should your client proceed to issue proceedings without first complying with their obligations, I will seek an immediate stay under the Practice Direction – Pre-Action Conduct (paragraph 15(b)) and invite the court to impose sanctions.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Trevone Beach - Overstay
« Reply #9 on: »
Correct. That’s what they have responded with.

No correspondence received in the post. This is first point of contact received after sending the detailed reply as recommended.

The email is a reply to that response sent to Moorside by email. And simply says

“ Thank you for your email.
To enable us to process your email, we need to confirm that we are corresponding with the correct individual. To pass our security checks, we ask that you confirm the following: 
Address and post code
Vehicle registration
Please reply to this email to continue the email thread. 
Yours sincerely
Moorside Legal”

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Trevone Beach - Overstay
« Reply #10 on: »
As the attachment with the LoC from Moorside Legal has been removed, please post the LoC again on an external hosting service (Imgur.com or Google Drive for example). Make sure that you do not redact the signatory of the LoC.

There has been a very recent High Court appeal case that could affect every one of these incompetent bulk litigators, especially one as utterly incompetent as Moorside Legal. It affects who is conducting the litigation within the firm.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Trevone Beach - Overstay
« Reply #11 on: »
Thanks

See links attached for Letter of Claim received in June. Recommended response sent to Moorside 12 days after date of letter by email.

Thanks again for your continued help. Appreciate any guidance on next steps.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ur8P0Y22PKhNOft9sfKMBQ_7ajyvxcOu/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1drNv08OPgtyeWxXw4emml6sqFNOfnYYx/view?usp=drivesdk

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Trevone Beach - Overstay
« Reply #12 on: »
Hi

Assume no issue in responding to Moorside with vehicle reg and address to pass their security checks so can understand what response they would like to send?

Thanks

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Trevone Beach - Overstay
« Reply #13 on: »
Hi

Assume no issue in responding to Moorside with vehicle reg and address to pass their security checks so can understand what response they would like to send?

Thanks
They sent you a letter of claim, to which you replied.
See https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/pcm-ltd-parking-ticket/msg88209/#msg88209 for a similar response in similar circumstances.

Re: Alliance Parking PCN - Trevone Beach - Overstay
« Reply #14 on: »
Great thank you.