Author Topic: ACPOA - Redhill Station - Penalty Notice  (Read 2854 times)

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ACPOA - Redhill Station - Penalty Notice
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Hi all. Please can you take a look at this penalty notice. From my research this unenforceable in a criminal sense and APCOA generally is not court active?





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Re: ACPOA - Redhill Station - Penalty Notice
« Reply #1 on: »
Please don’t obscure dates.
See https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/

But APCOA don’t do court, and it won’t be “relevant land” if they tried to imply they could transfer liability to the registered keeper.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2025, 03:25:38 pm by jfollows »
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Re: ACPOA - Redhill Station - Penalty Notice
« Reply #2 on: »
Unredact the dates and times and you will get advice on how you will never have to pay this!
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: ACPOA - Redhill Station - Penalty Notice
« Reply #3 on: »
15/10/2025

14:07

Re: ACPOA - Redhill Station - Penalty Notice
« Reply #4 on: »
This is the reason nothing will happen... besides the fact that APCOA never litigate, the “Penalty Notice” you uploaded (GTR site, Byelaw-framed, alleging “Failure to park wholly within an authorised, marked bay”, with threats of POPLA and of applying to the DVLA for “owner” details).

This is a Railway Byelaws matter (Transport Act 2000/Railway Byelaws 2005, typically byelaw 14). It is criminal/regulatory, not a civil parking charge.
Keeper liability (PoFA 2012) does not apply on railway land (not “relevant land”). The keeper cannot be made liable by PoFA wording or ANPR/notice timelines.
The Byelaws refer to an “owner”, which APCOA cannot establish from DVLA; the DVLA only releases registered keeper data, and the V5C is not proof of ownership. Treating the RK as the owner is an evidential leap they would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt in court.
POPLA is not competent for Byelaw penalties and APCOA are not an approved Train Operating Company (TOC) Independent Appeals Body (IAB). Directing a Byelaws PN to POPLA is wrong.
The only lawful route to pursue a Byelaws allegation is for the operator/TOC to lay an information in the magistrates’ court (Single Justice Procedure) within six months of the alleged offence. Anything else (civil demands, debt collectors, POPLA) is ultra vires the Byelaws route.

Defects apparent on the notice you supplied
It mixes criminal (Byelaws “Penalty Notice”, threat of criminal record) with civil mechanisms (POPLA, discounted “settlement”, “Notice to Owner” via DVLA). That hybridisation is defective.
It threatens to obtain an “owners list” from the DVLA. No such list exists; DVLA data is for the keeper only.
It implies continued civil recovery if unpaid, rather than the statutory SJP route. That misstates the proper process.

• APCOA have no standing to prosecute; only the Train Operating Company could bring a byelaw prosecution.
• They cannot invoke PoFA, and they cannot recover anything civilly because this isn’t relevant land.
• They won’t go near a magistrates’ court, as they’d have to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt and justify how a private contractor’s “discounted settlement” fits within criminal procedure.


Make a note in your diary: On Tuesday 11th November, you send the following appeal to APCOA through their portal:

Quote
Subject: Penalty Notice [ref], 15/10/2025, Redhill Station

I am the Registered Keeper. My details are:
Full name: [ ]
Postal address: [ ]

This location is subject to Railway Byelaws and is not “relevant land” for PoFA 2012; you cannot transfer liability to the keeper. POPLA is not competent for Byelaws matters.

You now have the keeper’s details. You therefore have no “reasonable cause” to obtain them from DVLA. Any DVLA request would be unnecessary and unlawful, contrary to UK GDPR Article 5(1)(c) (data minimisation) and without a valid Article 6 basis. If you believe an offence occurred, lay an information before the magistrates under the Single Justice Procedure within six months. Otherwise, erase my data when no longer necessary for this purpose.

As to any further demands, I refer you to the response given in Arkell v Pressdram (1971).

Yours faithfully,

[Name]
Registered Keeper
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: ACPOA - Redhill Station - Penalty Notice
« Reply #5 on: »
An excellent reply. My partner got one 6 months ago at Ashford Kent station. she's had a threatogram but the 6 months are up. :) I offer this to support what the others are saying above, not an attempt to start a thread hijack!
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

Re: ACPOA - Redhill Station - Penalty Notice
« Reply #6 on: »
This is the reason nothing will happen...

Thank you. What's the reason for sending the appeal response on that particular date?

Do private parking companies have any legitimate enforcement in railway station car parks, or only when they state civil contract law and not reel off criminal railway byelaws?

Re: ACPOA - Redhill Station - Penalty Notice
« Reply #7 on: »
You want to spin this out for as long as possible, because after six months the ability to prosecute the underlying criminal offence times out.

Private companies pretend they have authority because enough people just pay up.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2025, 11:29:58 am by jfollows »

Re: ACPOA - Redhill Station - Penalty Notice
« Reply #8 on: »
This is the reason nothing will happen...

Thank you. What's the reason for sending the appeal response on that particular date?

Do private parking companies have any legitimate enforcement in railway station car parks, or only when they state civil contract law and not reel off criminal railway byelaws?

You're also laying down a banana skin for APCOA to slip on with regard to obtaining your details from DVLA without good cause.
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Re: ACPOA - Redhill Station - Penalty Notice
« Reply #9 on: »
This is the reason nothing will happen...

Thank you. What's the reason for sending the appeal response on that particular date?

Do private parking companies have any legitimate enforcement in railway station car parks, or only when they state civil contract law and not reel off criminal railway byelaws?

You're also laying down a banana skin for APCOA to slip on with regard to obtaining your details from DVLA without good cause.

How do I know they've slipped on it if I provide them the RK details in my message next month? The letter-a-month from the debt collection agency won't specify where they got my details from...

Re: ACPOA - Redhill Station - Penalty Notice
« Reply #10 on: »
You are overthinking this. By appealing ONLY as the Keeper and providing them with your details, if they then apply to the DVLA for the Keeper details, they are in breach of your GDPR. I already explained this above:

You now have the keeper’s details. You therefore have no “reasonable cause” to obtain them from DVLA. Any DVLA request would be unnecessary and unlawful, contrary to UK GDPR Article 5(1)(c) (data minimisation) and without a valid Article 6 basis. If you believe an offence occurred, lay an information before the magistrates under the Single Justice Procedure within six months. Otherwise, erase my data when no longer necessary for this purpose.

No one who has received advice here and followed it has EVER paid a penny to APCOA. Unless you want to be the first, be my guest.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: ACPOA - Redhill Station - Penalty Notice
« Reply #11 on: »
I'm well aware I won't be paying a penny.

I'm more interested in a bit of discussion regarding with InterCity125. They said by providing by details as a RK, I'll be laying something to trip them over with if they apply for my details via the DVLA.

So the "banana skin" is providing the my details as a RK, to make any application by APCOA to the DVLA a breach of GDPR. My questions is how I do know the trip has occurred, after providing my details to APCOA?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2025, 05:50:07 pm by Zbornak »

Re: ACPOA - Redhill Station - Penalty Notice
« Reply #12 on: »
Don't worry too much about the whys and wherefores. Follow the good free advice given on here. All these suggestions have been tried and tested. Ignore debt collectors letters, do not contact them, do not reveal the identity of the driver.
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

Re: ACPOA - Redhill Station - Penalty Notice
« Reply #13 on: »
I'm well aware I won't be paying a penny.

I'm more interested in a bit of discussion regarding with InterCity125. They said by providing by details as a RK, I'll be laying something to trip them over with if they apply for my details via the DVLA.

So the "banana skin" is providing the my details as a RK, to make any application by APCOA to the DVLA a breach of GDPR. My questions is how I do know the trip has occurred, after providing my details to APCOA?

Because APCOA will send you a letter saying, "We have obtained your details under reasonable cause from the DVLA."

Like the others have said, best to stick to the proven path to get the required result.

I'm just interested in what POPLA are going to do / say when they get an appeal for a 'Penalty Notice'!
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Re: ACPOA - Redhill Station - Penalty Notice
« Reply #14 on: »
My advice is to appeal to POPLA under protest, making clear that POPLA has no jurisdiction over Penalty Notices issued under Railway Byelaws. If POPLA convinces APCOA to cancel the fake “Penalty Notice”, so be it.

If they don’t, APCOA are at liberty to lay information before a magistrate — if they dare — and we’ll all enjoy watching them try to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the registered keeper is criminally liable for the vehicle operator’s alleged breach of a railway byelaw.

I am offering odds of 100:1 to anyone who believes this will ever reach a prosecution. Any takers?

Incidentally, new legislation is expected next month requiring all Train Operating Companies to prohibit unregulated private parking firms from issuing these pseudo-penalties on railway property. They will soon be limited to civil Parking Charge Notices for alleged contractual breaches. This scam is almost over for APCOA and SABA alike.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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